Trap-out or inside cut-out? Will the hive/honey remains leave bad smells?

[PatBeek]

Hello everyone.

Someone responded to an ad I have running locally for bee removal and I thought I'd run
some of these options by some of you.

I told the guy over the phone that I could either trap them out or do a cut-out. I told him that the upside to a trap-out would be that no damage would occur to either his inner or outer wall. I told him a trap-out could possibly take several weeks. He was fine with that. I also told him a cut-out would have to be a several hundred dollar charge. He was fine with that if he decides to go that route.

Here's the bottom line: He would like for me to do a trap-out only IF it doesn't leave an obvious smell weeks/months/years after the fact.

What are some of your experiences out there with doing trap-outs and having to deal with smells? Is it really a problem?


Here are the photos:

[gkervitsky]

Patbeek, I do extractions all the time and tend to prefer the trapping methods. But, it is not without a set of potential risks and problems, and you do potentially expose yourself to some liability. Your location in AHB territory is one of them. Secondary entrances should be one of your concerns as well as the the possibility that trapping them on the outside will lead to pursuit of entrance/egress from the interior side. I recommend that you read up on some of the details of what you are getting into, The one below is from a Clemson extension office, but I'd imagine that a Florida University would have info more unique to your situation: http://www.clemson.edu/extension/bee...tructures.html

Good luck,
George

[Northwest PA Beekeeper]

Are you getting paid for the trapout? Many times, most beekeepers after a trapout, move the trapped bees to a different location and after all the bees are gone (all brood has hatched out), you bring another hive in and set so they can rob out the honey. That then just leaves empty comb which should not smell. One robbed out, you plug all the holes so a new colony can't move in next Spring.

[PatBeek]

Yes, that sounds great. I will bring an additional hive and let them rob.

How does that work, though? How do you make the other hive go in and rob it? Do you have to douse honey all over the outside as bait?

Regarding liability, how on earth did the Oregon Trail ever happen?

I'm not downplaying the risks and liability involved. I just can't worry about every last threat that could possibly happen on the planet.

However, I WILL make sure there's no way they'll try to pile in the building through an alternate route inside. I appreciate the tips.

[gkervitsky]

Not sure about the OR trail, just looking to make sure your prepared as it appears to be something new. For example, it appears that the entrance is near a phone or cable box. If wires pass from exterior to interior at that point, the bees have a penetration on the inside in which to possibly escape. I have had bees exit chandeliers 25-30 feet from an extraction point, as well as exiting bathroom vents. Bees are amazingly resourceful; never underestimate them. Depending how long they are in place, the resources on the inside, and the whether alternate entrances are revealed, the minimum extraction can exceed more than a few weeks.

[PatBeek]

gkervitsky,

I was just giving you a hard time.

I absolutely appreciate and agree with everything you are saying and have taken note of it.

Any morsel of advice I can get will be much appreciated.

.

[Mr.Beeman]

The amount of darkening on the wall behind the box indicates two things.
1. That hive has been there a while and
2. It is going to be a rather large one.

Myself, I would do a cut out from the inside. Getting paid for taking bees to add to your apiary sounds like a good deal to me!

A trap out will take several weeks and brood will continue to hatch. No to mention the smells and possible infestation of ants and other insects.

[PatBeek]

.

I've decided (ad customer agrees) that I will do an inside cut-out tomorrow morning (Thurs).

I'm even going to do it without a vac. Imagine that.

As long as I nab the queen, most will follow into the hive anyhow - at least theoretically.

From what I understand, Michael Bush prefers not to use a vac because it makes the queen scurry away.

I realize a queen can be replaced, but who wants to spend 20-30 bucks on a bug when we can have it for free?

[PatBeek]

So I go to do the cut-out yesterday with the intent (and agreed upon by the customer) to do an inside cut-out.

I could hear the bees loudly behind the drywall so I assumed it was a safe bet that they would be exposed from the inside. I was wrong. The bees had made their way through a small hole that used to be in the cinder block from an outside box that was on the wall. There were a few bees congregating in a very small space in between the drywall and the cinder block.

So when it was discovered that the bees couldn't be accessed from the inside, I offered the owner two options = = to knock-out the cinder block from the inside or the outside. I told him that, of course, doing it from the inside would have been much more of a mess.

He thought about it and then decided to go for the trap-out option.

Well, I hadn't come fully prepared to do a trap-out, and I live a full hour (plus tolls) from this place, so I had to get a bit creative on short notice (Lesson 1 - be fully prepared for ALL options).

I had some screen material, but I didn't have a good way to mount the cone to the outside wall.

I will post some photos and a short video here in a bit. My wife is kicking me off the desk so she can do some business stuff. (gawwwwd, her priorities).

[PatBeek]

.

Oh yes, I didn't even have the proper roof with me for my hive because I thought I was going to do a cut-out. The top bars would have kept the bees in just fine with screen and tape for the ride home. I didn't think I'd need any weather protection for the hive for this trip. I was wrong. I ended up having to use a weighted-down tarp until I return to check on it later in the week.

What I ended up doing was cutting a small trash can in half and mounting the top portion of the can with tapcons. Then I used silicone caulk to seal it all up. I staple-gunned the screen to the trash can and I had to staple-gun the screen to a piece of wood to make sure it was sealed all the way down.

All of this would have been done MUCH better if I had known ahead of time. It's not easy working around a bunch of bees with gloves/suit on during a hot summer Florida afternoon !!!!!!!

And no, I didn't have any brood/eggs to place in there. I had just a small amount of old comb I hairclipped to a couple of the top bars......although I have heard several testimonies on these forums of people who have done trapouts with no brood/eggs AND they have gotten the queen to come out into the trap as well.

I also threw in some lemongrass oil to hopefully lessen my chances of complete failure.

Another thing I thought I did that was a big mistake was having the end of the screen actually staple-gunned to the trap-hive mouth. That's just going to make it easier for the bees to find the entrance back in to the original hive. I didn't think about this issue until after I got home.

Can any of you make a few notes as to what I should do when I return very soon in order to correct this potential (if not assured) disaster?

[PatBeek]

.

Lawdy, lawdy, lawdy.

Alright, so I return to the place today to check out why the bees weren't going into my hive (as per the customer telling me over the phone....I live 60 miles away).

Two reasons:

1) they had eaten away at some of the silicon caulk around the base of the cover.

2) they had gotten clogged-up with dead bees at the end of the screen funnel.


So, I had pre-made a screen-cone at home attached to a thin piece of plywood and came ready to dismantle everything off the wall and start anew.

All of that is fine, except working around pissed-off AHB (at least I think they probably are) mixed with a hot day with gloves/suit on makes for some interesting times, indeed. These bees are Peeed-off bad. They got me a couple of times. They also will follow me around the entire building. Bad news bees. I may have to replace the queen, even if I get her to come out.

So I finally get all the original catastrophe taken down and most of the caulk peeled off the wall and finally get my new cone up (after another trip to Home Depot for more silicon and also hitting a grate/drain that's on the side of the driveway and ripped my tire apart.....had to put on spare tire and go buy a new tire......I haven't told my wife this part, nor do I plan on it.)

So when I FINALLY get the proper pieces in tact, the bees start crowding on and into my hive. It was like magic.

Now I'm HOPING the cone doesn't get clogged-up with bees or something else happens to stop this process for several weeks.

DO NOT TAKE JOBS FAR AWAY UNLESS YOU ARE RICH AND YOUR WIFE SUPPORTS EVERY HOBBY YOU HAVE NO MATTER WHAT !!!!!


So here are the photos and video:

[gkervitsky]

PatBeek...

good work and use of applied learning and adaptation. sorry to leave ya hanging...more comments later. Your cone is a little too narrow for my liking. They work best with an upward pointing cone opening....that way gravity helps to keep the path clear.

GK

[PatBeek]

PatBeek...

good work and use of applied learning and adaptation. sorry to leave ya hanging...more comments later. Your cone is a little too narrow for my liking. They work best with an upward pointing cone opening....that way gravity helps to keep the path clear.

GK

Much appreciated. Keep the suggestions coming.

I only had a little screen left to make the cone. It could have used another layer as well. That's why I had to support it with 22 gauge wire - so it wouldn't flop down.

[PatBeek]

.

The owner of the building sent me an update photo this morning.

Should I be concerned that they are clustering like this on the outside of my hive?

I suppose the worst that can happen is they build some comb on the outside as well. I'll just cut it off and tie it in to the inside.

[rtoney]

It looks like they are still coming and going from the hive clustering should not be a big deal oh and BTW your wife has her own screen name and reads your post anyways. Good luck.

[PatBeek]

.....and BTW your wife has her own screen name and reads your post anyways. Good luck.

Yeah, her screen name is BeeNaziChick365

But I would venture to guess that there's just no way that the cluster could be the queen?

I would seriously doubt she'd be coming out that soon, even if at all.

[Mr.Beeman]

Looks like they may be a little warm and are bearding. Queen is not ready to come out for sure. The cone is a little long and seems to have dropped a bit. Maybe due to being clogged again? (Hope not)
Try some #8 hardware cloth (with the 1/8" squares) for your cone. It WILL NOT sag and like stated before upward angle so the deceased bees roll back.
Living that far away it pays to spend a little now than a lot later. Not to mention a happier wife! lol

[PatBeek]

Mr. Beeman,

Thanks.

This has been a great first-hand learning experience for me.

Until you actually go out there and experience it all for yourself, there's no true way to gauge it all properly.

But again, it surely didn't help matters that he threw me the curve ball by deciding to do the trap-out after he agreed on the cut-out initially.

But no excuses - no excuses.

.

[Mr.Beeman]

Pat,
You are doing a very fine job and I realize that "hands on" experience is the only REAL way to learn.
Mistakes are meant to happen... that's how we learn.
You have to totaly switch gears when you go from a cut out to trap out!
I just came back from a trap out install myself. Got really soaked with rain, right to the bone. Not fun.
I saw first hand today the results from a crop spray.... the bee carnage was there by the thousands. Again, not fun.

[PatBeek]

I saw first hand today the results from a crop spray.... the bee carnage was there by the thousands. Again, not fun.

What exactly did you see regarding the carnage from the spraying? Was it related to bees of the trap-out you installed?