Small cell foundation observations this year

[jadell]

I started adding small cell foundation (SCF) into a couple of hives this year as an experiment to see what would happen. I'm going to call our normal foundation large cell for this post. I did an inspection today and this is what I saw:

1.The queen has chosen to stop laying brood in all the large cell comb in the hive. I opened the brood nest this year with the SCF.

2.The lowest box is mostly large cell, and is completely filled with pollen (normal).

3.Everywhere the SCF was placed, brood was there. There was an entire deep of SCF added also.

4. The large cell on either side of the SCF contained honey, nectar, or pollen...no brood. Even if the SCF comb was the only one for a few frames.

5. I had noticed that the younger bees looked smaller from the entrance, so that's why I took a look to see what was going on.

These are just a few of the observations I can remember right now as I cool off. I'll add more as they come to mind.

I also started two new packages completely on SCF, and they are doing the best I've ever seen packages do. Granted we aren't in a drought here, but I've never had them take off like this before. Oh yeah, I run all deeps.

Discuss....

[Goldprospector]

Ive notices pretty much the same thing...I have ended up pulling all of the foundation out and have been regressing sizes. anywhere there is still any larger cell size, they either store pollen or honey in it and the queen dont lay in it

[curios1]

i have been switching to foundationless. the queen prefers it. i started a nuc with all the necesary ingridients on natural foundation. the bees are smaller and they reered the smallest queen i have seen yet.

[johnth78]

I am about to place foundationless and am really glad to hear this!

[LampBurner]

I'm baffeled by one thing.
First off, I have been a firm believer in SCF and natural comb since right off the bat. It pleases me that you and you all are getting satisfactory results and I assume happy with them.
Just (I thought) that standard long sence enlarged 5.4 mm bees had to be regressed down before they could draw out comb on SCF. jadell's bees seem to be dong it.

[Solomon Parker]

It's a highly variable phenomenon. Some will immediatly, some wont at all. More will on Mann Lake Plastic Frames (PF-100, 120). A few refuse.

I'd like to combat that idea that you have to regress to some intermediate size between 5.4 and 4.9. The best thing to do is go straight to 4.9. It wont likely be drawn perfectly the first time, but it will happen eventually.

[beedeetee]

It's funny how people's experiences can be so different. In 2007 I used a half case of SCF. The bees reworked the foundation and I got the ugliest looking frames I'd ever seen. I don't think that I got one small cell, although I admit that I didn't measure every one. I still have the other half of the case of foundation. I have recycled most of the frames and the others are the honey frames on the edges of the boxes. I have my Jenter box in one.

[Barry]

Was that wax foundation?

[Barry]

I'd like to combat that idea that you have to regress to some intermediate size between 5.4 and 4.9. The best thing to do is go straight to 4.9. It wont likely be drawn perfectly the first time, but it will happen eventually.

Ah, it looks to me like you're being combative with your own statement. If they don't draw it out perfectly the first time, that pretty much means they drew an intermediate size and one will have to continue again to get it smaller. My experience, I've never been able to get full frames of SC comb. I've stated before that all my wax foundation was milled at the Lusby's and their mill gives no side wall imprint, just a very shallow bottom rhombus. That is why I'm looking forward to trying the PF-120's next season.

[beedeetee]

What I used was wired wax foundation. I still have the case in the basement that might have brand.

[jrbbees]

I use Mann Lake Wired Wax SCF
They love it and it looks beautiful.

[jadell]

Was that wax foundation?

Barry,
If that question was for me, yes it was small cell wax. Not sure of the supplier, I got it from a local bee supply guy.

[curios1]

100_2721.jpgi let the bees draw ther own, with just a litle piece. this is the results of 7 days.100_2714.jpgi also find that once they start drawing there own they leave the other foundation alone. just my observation in my hives.

[Barry]

Barry, If that question was for me,

Yes. Can you find the name of the manufacturer?

[mmmooretx]

While not wax foundation I am trying the Kelley foundationless deep & Med. super, 10 ea. to see what happens.
http://kelleybees.com/Products/Detai...3333&grouped=1

[luka]

I started to use SCF this year and what i've observed is that except for a few exceptions the queen lays a very spotty pattern and they like to refill the empty cells with nectar

[Barry]

Please give brand name and if it's wax or plastic.

[luka]

small cell foundation from Brushymountain wax foundation is was crimp wire

[Barry]

If you or anyone else has a small piece of sc wax foundation you could spare, I'd love to have a piece so I can compare it to the foundation I made using a sc mill. An inch by two would be plenty.

[jadell]

Seems as though it's from Dadant. His website is wildmountainbees.com. I'd be happy to send you a piece.