Walter Kelly foundation less frames query

**mmmooretx** · 07-23-2012, 09:22 AM

I just ordered 10 each for brood chamber and med. super to try out. Once received I will assemble and try one or two to see how they work. If anyone is using them I would appreciate hearing about your experiences or learning curve.
Thanks in advance.

https://kelleybees.com/Products/Deta...3333&grouped=1

**jrbbees** · 07-23-2012, 11:06 AM

you may find that it is easier to get straight comb bif you place the foundationless inbetween two already drawn comb.

**mmmooretx** · 07-23-2012, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by jrbbees

you may find that it is easier to get straight comb bif you place the foundationless inbetween two already drawn comb.

That is what I was thinking. I only ordered 10 of each size to try between two hives. I just ordered the hardware I needed for my second hive.
Thanks, this is a test run.

**Keth Comollo** · 07-23-2012, 11:40 AM

I tried the Kelly foundationless frames. They work just fine. I didn't put wax on them or anything else. I just wired them fully. Still in a couple of my broodnests. No problems.

**bamindy** · 07-23-2012, 12:50 PM

Mike,
I am converting all of my hives to foundationless. I don't know what Kelly charges but if it is more than a wedge top, buy the wedge top and use the wedge. I just started this year and was shocked at the amount of drone comb that is initially produced and I would highly recommend checkerboarding with drawn frames. One other key is to keep the hive perfectly level from side to side as the new comb will follow gravity. If it isn't level you could get comb from the top of one frame attached to the bottom of another one. I also found that going foundationless is a great swarm preventer. A box full of foundationless frames is a lot "bigger" than a box divided into sections by frames with foundation. I had three of five new singles swarm when given drawn frames on their second deep. The two that were given foundationless frames in their second deep have filled it and I have harvested 3 supers each off of them since May 26th.

**Paul McCarty** · 07-23-2012, 01:19 PM

I have a ton of them, I like them a lot, but tend to use a mix of Mann Lake wedge tops and PF-105's with them.

**mmmooretx** · 07-23-2012, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by bamindy

Mike,
One other key is to keep the hive perfectly level from side to side as the new comb will follow gravity. If it isn't level you could get comb from the top of one frame attached to the bottom of another one. The two that were given foundationless frames in their second deep have filled it and I have harvested 3 supers each off of them since May 26th.

Good point on the level, I think I am close but will verify and level before implementation. Also good news on the harvest. I am half way tempted to do some full comb harvesting too which makes the foundationless very interesting.

Thanks to everyone for your inputs and thoughts on this subject.

**sfisher** · 07-23-2012, 10:40 PM

I bought a couple hundred of these a couple of moths ago. The only other frames I have to compare them to are brushy mnts groove top, groove bottoms, which I put paint sticks in. The bees dont seem to care which they use, they draw them both out nicley. I do think that the kelly frames are lighter than brushy mnts frames. If I was to hold one in each hand I would choose brushy. But with kellys comb guide built right in, it saves alot of time. And I cant recall the price right now, but I do belive kellys were alot cheaper. So for right now I would buy more kelleys, unless I find out in the future that the lighter wood does not hold up as well as the heavier frames. Also when you put empty foundationless frames inbetween frames of honey, the bees tend to draw the comb on the frames of honey out deeper, instead of starting new comb on the empty frames. They wont do that if you place the empty frames inbetween brood combs first, and let them draw them out. Then you can move them up into the honey supers. But that is one of the advantages of using all the same size frames. Steve

**wadehump** · 07-24-2012, 06:03 AM

dont know about the pricing but i use reulaur wedge top and turn the wedge down they draw it fine

**odfrank** · 07-24-2012, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by sfisher

I bought a couple hundred of these a couple of moths ago. Steve

I don't need more moths.

**mmmooretx** · 07-24-2012, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by odfrank

I don't need more moths.

As a new beek I am a little confused over this since both fondationless, wired wax foundation, wireless foundation, and wood framed plastic foundation all have wax cells. How does foundationless cause more moths?
Thank you.

**rweakley** · 07-24-2012, 11:17 AM

I don't believe the person was saying it caused more moths, I think they were being funny about the other person's typo where they put moths instead of months. If you have a wax moth problem I'd consider getting some BT from sundance in the forsale section. It's a powder substance that you mix with water and then spray on the comb, it will kill the wax moth larva before they get a chance to do much damage. Harmless to bees and humans. Same/similar stuff some farmers spray on their crops to kill tomato worms, or the worms that get on broccoli.