Foundationless and (some) frameless honey in Santa Monica, July 16, 2012

[cerezha]

... Sergey, are the double deckers from frames that border the new frames you put in?

Yes, they basically make exactly twice thicker honeycomb - instead two frames, they use one occupying the space of two. But, I do not care - crush-and-strain, you know... Interestingly, I do not see a difference when honey comb made in different foundationless "frames" (just empty frame, without bottom bar, without bottom and side bars, different starters) - the manipulation of the top bar "frame" with full honeycomb is not more difficult than if it is a foundationless complete frame. But, all my frames are medium in this hive. Many thanks for nice comment. Sergey

[efaure]

Yes, they basically make exactly twice thicker honeycomb - instead two frames, they use one occupying the space of two. But, I do not care - crush-and-strain, you know... Interestingly, I do not see a difference when honey comb made in different foundationless "frames" (just empty frame, without bottom bar, without bottom and side bars, different starters) - the manipulation of the top bar "frame" with full honeycomb is not more difficult than if it is a foundationless complete frame. But, all my frames are medium in this hive. Many thanks for nice comment. Sergey

Hay Sergey,
Could you post a picture what you are putting in the hive? ...just to have a visual of what you are meaning. Is there ANY wax on the frame (technically top-bar)? Thanks

[cerezha]

Gypsi
Oooo
Great pictures! You are master of macros! Gorgeous her Majesty. I wish to meet mine. Unfortunately, I never was introduced to "my" "her Majesty"! So, I even do not know if she is yellow or dark...

[cerezha]

Gypsi
foundationless deeps! Really cool! I never tried... very good pictures! Try my approach - it does not require to change picture-size. It will appeared as an thubnail, like mines above.

[cerezha]

Hay Sergey,
Could you post a picture what you are putting in the hive? ...just to have a visual of what you are meaning. Is there ANY wax on the frame (technically top-bar)? Thanks

Sure I will. But If you look in #22 post, you could see that "frames" are different. I used the following combinations:
starter strip - (1) grove filled with wax or (2) wedge (1" strip), no wax;
frame (no foundation):
- complete standard medium frame with 1 or 2 starter strip;
- standard medium frame without bottom bar with 1 or 2 starter strip;
- truncated medium frame without bottom bar and side bars (essentially only top bar) with 1 or 2 starter strip;

I tried all of them in non-systemic way. My impression is that girls do equally well on all of them - I did not see noticeable difference in drawing speed or quality of the comb (straight). My impression is that position of the frame in the box (and position of the box, top etc) plays more important role than frame's design. Also, if you noticed, all frames have zero cross-comb. I attribute it to the management - empty frame is always between two drawn frames and I remove frames as soon as honey is cupped - if frame with cupped honey stays in the hive for while, girls started "house renovation" and make weird things with the comb. But, it is happened only (in my case) when full frame sits in the hive for a few months. All these true only for honey-part of the hive. The nest part - is a mess!

[cerezha]

...this is September comb being drawn, for all those that say bees will not draw comb in the fall. If they need comb, and they are fed or have flow, they will draw comb.

Beautiful comb!

[cerezha]

Hay Sergey,
Could you post a picture what you are putting in the hive? ...just to have a visual of what you are meaning...

Unfortunately, most of my frames are in the hive... I have only these available for picturing. But they all the same - they are just unfinished standard frames.
First picture at the top - just top part of the standard frame; at the bottom - frame without bottom bar. I was using particle board for starting strip, no wax. Alternatively, I just filled up the groove with melted wax. Both methods works fine to my bees. Right now, most of my frames have wax in the grove since it is easier to me.

[cerezha]

Bees dictates what to do. I have two beehives. One is 6 mediums tall and growing... another just happened to be experimental. First, I was trying to convert them into Kenyan horizontal beehive. For this I build adapter from Lang to KTBH. They refuse to expand into KTBH, become crowded in Langs part and heavily swarmed (beautiful swarm). I would call it "absconded". The rest suffered trying to establish a new queen... Finally, after 2 month of non-existence, they established a new queen and start growing (within initial Lang deep). I offered to them additional box - they ignored it! They are in complete denial to expand vertically! So, I spend the whole weekend making for them a horizontal hive - basically the box of the size of two Langs deeps putting together. Sort of compromise between Lang and TBH. So, today we had moved into nice two-bedroom apartment. I had chance to take a few pictures. Note that all frames are foundationless. I also did not find any single cross-comb or other comb imperfection.

[danmcm]

hey Sergey great pics almost makes me want to move to California for the year round forage. When the bees place wax over a cell they are capping it, thus you have a capped frame of honey. Couple of your posts referred to cupped cells and it took me awhile since you were consistant in referring to them this way thought it was something new...
Great job long live the queen!

[cerezha]

Danmcm
Many thanks for your comments. It is quite confusing here in California without seasons. Especially to me, from Russia. It is so interesting - large vertical hive is all about making more honey. The horizontal one (see story above) is full of brood and not much honey - just some around the brood and may be one full frame of honey... I hope they have enough to eat and feed babies. Two hives - two totally different personalities!

....Couple of your posts referred to cupped cells ....

sorry for this - it is my broken English!
Good luck with your bees!

[cerezha]

I removed very old frames from my beehive. These frames used to have a brood. They are foundationless and stayed in the hive for at least 3 years (to my knowledge) - cells are 5.0-5.1 mm. I feel that dark comb is too "dark" and add a few pictures of my beehives place. The animal- is a "wild" cat, gift from Switzerland - was intensively searched on both borders. Persimmons are so bright and optimistic!

[cerezha]

I did inspection of my horizontal double-Lang hive (see picture above). It looks like, girls are doing very well. They made a few beautiful bars of honey - I was not able to take a picture because the comb is so huge, I was afraid it could break. In the future, I probably need to replace bars on some sort of frame for security. There are bunch of brood. I took only one picture.

[mmmooretx]

Very nice looking frame Sergey! I will have to post a picture of an add on to my frame perch that holds a frame up for photography. You might like the idea, and it is simple to build. I will try and remember to do that tonight.

[cerezha]

... I will have to post a picture of an add on to my frame perch that holds a frame up for photography. ...

Please!

[cerezha]

Since my girls are very active these days (SoCal), I decided to check with them to see if they have enough space in their 5-story apartment building. Apparently, from the last inspection 3-4 weeks ago, they managed to fill up 2 mediums. I steal one frame with beautiful honey to give them a little more space. Only 2 frames are completely empty. Most of the frames are at least 70% drawn comb with mostly uncapped honey. As usual, I am posting some pictures of my foundationless frames. This time I had an experiment - 2 month ago, I gave girls an empty box with top bars only - it is nearly full now. All comb is straight and there is very little cross-comb. Middle picture shows the top bar with honey comb in the Lang. I find that older combs (started earlier and completed now) sometime attached to the bottom - I have to be careful with this. I also made a holder for the frames to hold them outside the hive - it is massive, but works well for now. Girls behaved well this time. Next time it would be a winter harvest. Thanks for visiting this page. Good luck with your bees! Sergey

[mmmooretx]

Please!

Sergey,
I put the pictures and explanation in the photo section, link below. Drop me a note if you have any questions. It is sized for deeps or medium supers, just adjust the lengths as needed for your size frames.
Update, I do have the tall uprights bent in slightly to hold the frame ears tight enough so they do not slip out.
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?276035-Frame-photostand&p=869094#post869094[/url]

[cerezha]

...I put the pictures and explanation in the photo section, link below http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...094#post869094

Many thanks. It is great design! Sergey

[cerezha]

Some fresh honeycomb from the vertical beehive (see above), 11-20-2012. Note that this is just "top bar". The honeycomb were stored in the container before taking a picture, thus - some damage to the beautiful honeycomb (on the left). I apologize for that.

I measured also the cell size - it is 6.4 mm, huge! It looks like, when they start honeycomb from foundationless, they always made a huge cells, but it is not drone's cells - it is for honey. It is my understanding that when comb is completed, they remodel it to accommodate the brood. I never was able to catch this moment... my brood cells are 5-5.1 mm. It is just mystery to me how they "shrink" the cells.
Sergey

[cerezha]

Occupy nuc! 11-21-2012

[cerezha]

Frame with brood is from my horizontal hive, it is blooming.