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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Foundationless and (some) frameless honey in Santa Monica, July 16, 2012

    Hey Gypsi
    Thanks for vising! Take a pictures and post here (or other place). I would be interested to compare side-by-side plastic foundation comb and foundationless. Camera is my essential tool when I do an inspection - if I have any questions etc., I just take a picture to see in details later. My camera has good macros, so I really could see small details on the picture, which I could not in the field when working the hive.

    As you could see, all my frames (at least honey) are foundationless and truncated. Most of them are very nice and straight. From time to time, bees decided to do improvisation, than I have a "double-deck" honey combs - they build one thick one instead two... Since, I crush-and-strain, really not big deal. Problem with these double-deck frames - they are too heavy, so I could not hold them by one hand to take a picture. May be next time if I will have assistant. Good luck with your bees! Sergey

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Foundationless and (some) frameless honey in Santa Monica, July 16, 2012

    Today's inspection and honey harvest 9-25-2012.
    Man, bees were very unhappy when I get into the beehive... Bees are busy bringing more nectar in the hive (California!) and they are short in storage space. But, I do not feel comfortable adding 7th(!) medium...we are in earthquake zone; sometime I have nightmares what if this bee-sky-scraper will collapse from earthquake? So, I just steal 5 frames of honey creating some space for them. 5 frames - probably 15 pounds of early fall California honey! On the picture - what is happened when foundationless frame sit too long in the hive and girls decided to do home improvements... They basically, created a second layer of honeycomb on top of previous one. I do not know if similar possible on frames with foundation? I wish you to have a great honey crop! Take care, Sergey

    Update - I upload a few more pictures of the harvested frames. All of them are foundationless and many - truncated. Note that all frames had no cross comb or attachment to the walls issues.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by cerezha; 09-25-2012 at 07:58 PM. Reason: removed bad quality picture, grammar

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Foundationless and (some) frameless honey in Santa Monica, July 16, 2012

    >they are short in storage space. But, I do not feel comfortable adding 7th(!) medium...

    There is a manipulation called "harvest crop and extract." Maybe you should read up on it.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Foundationless and (some) frameless honey in Santa Monica, July 16, 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by odfrank View Post
    There is a manipulation called "harvest crop and extract." Maybe you should read up on it.
    Hi Frank, many thanks for suggestion. Quick search did not give me a good answer what you meant "harvest crop and extract"... Since I have only two hives permitted and I am foundationless, my flexibility is limited. My bees are also quite protective of their storage and especially nest. What I used to do - I left upper box full of hone to the bees. Periodically, I took 4 frames with honey from the next box (#2 from the top) and replace them with new frames. No drawn comb since I an foundationless and crush-and-strain... It is sort of checker boarding... It worked quite well for entire year. But recently, I discovered the brood in box #2 (from the top) - girls effectively screwed up my approach... So, by all my logic, I should add empty box between #1&2, but then - I'll have 7 medium store monster standing on unstable slope literally 20 feet from my garden and house... All my attempts to reduce the nest cause them to expand! The whole hive is boiled with bees now. I would really appreciate any suggestions. Many thanks for visiting. Sergey

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Foundationless and (some) frameless honey in Santa Monica, July 16, 2012

    Let me try again..."harvest the crop and crush and strain". Three mediums of honey and brood with an empty on top should be a good winter size for your climate.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Foundationless and (some) frameless honey in Santa Monica, July 16, 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by odfrank View Post
    Let me try again..."harvest the crop and crush and strain". Three mediums of honey and brood with an empty on top should be a good winter size for your climate.
    Well, we have no winter here... but yes, I follow your suggestion - I already collected the crop and is planning to crush-and-strain" tonight or tomorrow... Many thanks for your suggestion. Sergey

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Foundationless and (some) frameless honey in Santa Monica, July 16, 2012

    September's honey.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Серёжа, Sergey

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Foundationless and (some) frameless honey in Santa Monica, July 16, 2012

    You would need a lot of jars to empty three supers and get the bees down to a manageable height. Hmmm...

    If you leave it on, and something goes wrong, (shb, wax moth) you will lose it.
    Time to be a gypsy again, 2014 will be my prep year, my bees want a better area with actual rainfall.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Foundationless and (some) frameless honey in Santa Monica, July 16, 2012

    I have a full bait hive at a friend's house that has a super of surplus honey on it and his wife is objecting to me harvesting it. She wants to buy the honey from me and leave it on the hive. SHB's best friend.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Foundationless and (some) frameless honey in Santa Monica, July 16, 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Gypsi View Post
    ....If you leave it on, and something goes wrong, (shb, wax moth) you will lose it.
    Shhhhhh, do not tell!!!! I know... the problem is that they extended the nest up into box #5 (from the bottom). I am waiting until they hopefully will shrink a little bit before the "winter". Well, we have no winter and girls are very active - I opened completely the entrance a week ago. Right now they are filling up the box #6 - all foundation and frame-less. Beautiful comb! I wish, I would take pictures during last inspection - but girls were not in picture-shooting mood at all! There is no way I could shrink it down to "normal" 3 mediums. The best would be 4 mediums... Many thanks for visiting this thread. Sergey
    Серёжа, Sergey

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Foundationless and (some) frameless honey in Santa Monica, July 16, 2012

    Sergey, I think you can only have two hives based on something you said in the thread, but you could pull some brood to do a split and give the brood to another beek? I would say give it to me (I thoughtful that way!), but I don't think it would survive the trip across the country.

    I guess that is the bad thing about having a never ending summer, the brood cycle just keeps going and going.

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Foundationless and (some) frameless honey in Santa Monica, July 16, 2012

    If you have a 5 story broodnest sooner or later the bees will do their own split, AND take half the honey with them, if you do not shorten that stack. There are California beekeepers on here somewhere. OD Frank is one of them, Charlie B is a pretty smart beek too.

    (3 of my hives swarmed in the last month, making a new queen, taking some bees and stores with them.)

    My images are too large for beesource, so all of my pretty foundationless comb will remain a mystery. I know it is hard to crush and strain beautiful comb, which might be why they made extractors, but I don't know if foundationless can be extracted.

    Gypsi
    Time to be a gypsy again, 2014 will be my prep year, my bees want a better area with actual rainfall.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Foundationless and (some) frameless honey in Santa Monica, July 16, 2012

    Shannon
    Yes, I am permitted to have only two beehives by the City of Santa Monica. We are lucky - Los Angeles is not permitting bees! This is really great stock (bees). They swarmed beautifully in the end of July after I collected honey. Now I have brand new very enthusiastic queen. The swarm is a powerful colony in my neighbor backyard. Since, I am "natural" in many ways, I have no problem if bees do swarm (as long as it does not affect my neighbors). After swarming I decided to give them some break - result of this is 5 mediums nest... Now, I think, it is kind of too late to do a split... I wish you could have some of my bees, they are great! In the future I am sure I will make a splits to keep these local bees. Sergey
    Серёжа, Sergey

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Foundationless and (some) frameless honey in Santa Monica, July 16, 2012

    Gypsi
    Many thanks for visiting this thread. I am also concern about the scale of the hive. See my comments above. As for pictures - it does not work this way. Forum Actions/General Settings at the bottom of the page set "Basic editor". In "Go Advance" click "Manage attachments". In the separate window choose a single file and click "upload". Close download window and when done with text, "Submit Reply". This way the program automatically shrinks the image to acceptable size and post a thumbnails of the picture with link to the bigger picture. Barry, the Moderator, told me that it should not work, but so far it works. You could "upload' many pictures and then post them by clicking "Submit Reply". It took to me a while to figure it out - try, It would be nice to see your foundationless honeycomb! Sergey
    Серёжа, Sergey

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Foundationless and (some) frameless honey in Santa Monica, July 16, 2012

    Sergey,

    are your bees redrawing your harvested frames this time of year?

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Foundationless and (some) frameless honey in Santa Monica, July 16, 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by BayHighlandBees View Post
    ...are your bees redrawing your harvested frames this time of year?
    Yes, I meant, my management is different. Instead taking the whole super, I normally take every other frame in the box closest to the nest and replace with empty "frame" (top bar) - sort of checkerboarding... Top box is always full of honey (for bees). Normally,within the month or so, bees make a new comb and filled up with the honey. Sometime it takes longer. When box is 70% full, I remove frames with honey again (older one, from previous cycle) again. This way, bees are making new comb all the time. It is sort of swarming prevention. Periodically, they are slow down and take a break, than start again. It seems to me, they have short "winter" periods every 2-3 months. In mid July they swarmed. In mid September I got 5 frames full of honey and extracted approximately 7.5 kilos of honey. In July I got another 6 kilos. Right now, there are 5 beautiful 50-90% completed combs with nectar in the upper box. I did not take pictures since girls were not in right mood...
    Серёжа, Sergey

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Foundationless and (some) frameless honey in Santa Monica, July 16, 2012

    Sergey, we'll see if you can look at these. I don't have time to shrink photos to beesource standard, and the one with my queen is a 2 MB file I might print a tshirt off of






    Time to be a gypsy again, 2014 will be my prep year, my bees want a better area with actual rainfall.

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Foundationless and (some) frameless honey in Santa Monica, July 16, 2012





    Time to be a gypsy again, 2014 will be my prep year, my bees want a better area with actual rainfall.

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Foundationless and (some) frameless honey in Santa Monica, July 16, 2012

    Nice pics Gypsi and Sergey. Sergey, are the double deckers from frames that border the new frames you put in? I'm having that issue as well. The bees draw out the new frames ok, but they like extending the current frames into them at the same time, and I know how you feel, mine are deeps and I can barely lift them out with two hands and I have to pinch them so hard it hurts my fingers to hang onto them.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Foundationless and (some) frameless honey in Santa Monica, July 16, 2012

    a really good frame tool is a must. And I mix foundationless between plasticell. My bees draw out dadan'ts wax coated plasticell just fine. They prefer the foundationless. But I prefer separated frames so we all get a little of what we want.



    (and this is September comb being drawn, for all those that say bees will not draw comb in the fall. If they need comb, and they are fed or have flow, they will draw comb.)
    Time to be a gypsy again, 2014 will be my prep year, my bees want a better area with actual rainfall.

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