Electric uncapping knives

[SERGE]

Do electric uncapping knives change the taste or the color of honey? Do some beekeepers stay away from them because of these or other reasons?


Thanks

-Serge

[willyC]

Not in my experience, they just make the work go faster.

[max2]

I use an electric knife and have never noticed any negative effects - very quick!

[Nanook]

Any brand or type that people could recomend? I'm looking to get one this year, scratching the cap off is really messy and it's clogging the filters.

[Intheswamp]

When I decide to go electric I figure I only want to do it once. Being as it's an asset investment and a tool that I will use and rely on hopefully for years, I want something good and durable but something small for a (hopefully) large hobbiest or small sideliner. My mentor has an uncapping plane and it works beautifully...this is what I will purchase. The cost is a little more than a knife. It handles medium sized frames with ease. Check it out... Kelly Uncapping Planes.

Best wishes,
Ed

[SERGE]

Thanks for the info guys. The uncapping plane looks nice too. Thanks for the video, Edd. The Sideliner Uncapper from Brushy Mountain looks nice too, more expensive of course. Anybody got one?

http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com...eo=UiLQeSs-9Zg

[Cleo C. Hogan Jr]

Serge....Search uncapping plane on this forum. About 6 months ago there was considerable discussion on this subject.

Before buying an uncapping plane, I would suggest trying to find someone and use theirs to uncap and see how you like it. I bought one 10-15 years ago, did not like it. Keet it all these years. Then, when we had this discussion back in the Winter, I sent it to someone in Canada for them to try. Haven't heard back from them so, don't khow how they like it.

I use a Kelly or a Pierce uncapping knife. Set the heat so you don't burn the honey or it will put a taste in your honey.

cchoganjr

[woodedareas]

I purchase and returned my uncapping plane only because it does not fit between a shallow super. The idea is great but Maxant who has made these for decades does not properly describe the product in terms of the size supers that it will fit into. In other words it will fit between the top and bottom bars of the frame in larger frame but will not do so in the shallow super frames. Riding along the top bars is ok for a knife but the plane is designed to fit in between the bars. Hope thats clear. I purchased a heated knife and will give it a try.

[Cleo C. Hogan Jr]

woodedareas...That is why I strongly suggest anyone try one, before they buy one. I know people who love them, but, I did not. I don't know if today's models have an adjustable thermostat, but, the one I had perhaps, 15 years ago, did not, and, if left unattended for any length of time, it would burn, creating a caramelized mess.

cchoganjr

[Intheswamp]

I'm a little lost on your description of how the knife is better than the plane on the shallow frames, woodedareas. Most of the frames that I used the uncapping plane (Kelley handheld) on had comb that stood out beyond the bars a bit and the plane worked very well. The ones that I had to touch up were no problem...skips were hit with the plane again and low spots were touched up with a scratcher. It seems a knife or plane would both be too wide/long to go down between the bars of a shallow.

I'm not trying to be argumentative but rather seriously interested in the difference in using a knife and a plane as I may be getting ready to invest in some honey processing equipment myself. I like the way the plane worked, but...I haven't used a hot knife, yet.

Thanks,
Ed

[Intheswamp]

<snip>I don't know if today's models have an adjustable thermostat, but, the one I had perhaps, 15 years ago, did not, and, if left unattended for any length of time, it would burn, creating a caramelized mess.

Cleo, this is one big point that I've been pondering over. My mentor has the Kelly wax separator along with a jacketed uncapping tank. While we were processing my honey I wondered what the heat was doing to the honey. Actually, I was more concerned about the honey in the tank being heated along with the wax. Once it was in the separator there was no more heat. At times I notice the plane seemed *really* hot. Between supers of honey we would unplug the plane. I could definitely smell a...."smell".

When we got through extracting I took the separator bucket home with me to let the cappings wax finish hardening and to gather the couple of quarts of honey out of it. It had a faint "burnt" smell to it. I have kept this honey separate from the rest of my honey.

Would it correct for me to say that it makes sense that it was probably the plane being too hot rather than the hot uncapping tank that imparted this burnt smell/taste to the honey in separator bucket? If that is the case, should I look at an uncapping knife with a thermostat control box on it rather than a straight thermostatically control, non-adjustable model?

Thanks,
Ed

ETA: I know the uncapping plane probably 5+ years old and it has no thermostat that I could tell...I don't read anything about one on Kelley's website, either.

[RABray]

I just bought a Maxant plane and used it last weekend for the first time. Fortunately I had noticed the cautions about it overheating if left "on" and not used for extended times between uncapping frames which I kept this in mind as I used it on five batches of frames. Was having to turn it on and off in between batches a "perfect" process? Nope. However it was certainly manageable as the unit heated up quickly upon turning it back on. During this process I did not notice any caramelizing or undue odors on either the plane or subsequent honey or cappings. I really liked the tool and would definitely recommend others buy them. Was it an "absolutely perfect" design? Nope but I am fine with that. Shooooot the world has been saying "that is the hottest thing since sliced bread" for all these years not even sliced bread has been perfected for if it was perfect there would not be 60 different choices of loaves on the shelf at the grocery store. I like to unit.

[Cleo C. Hogan Jr]

Everybody.....My problems with the plane are these.

First, I guess I am just too old, and uncapped with a knife for too many years to make the change. Can't change that.

Second, you do need an inline switch to cut the unit off and on, or a thermostatically controlled setting to prevent burning. Honey that is trapped in the gusset of the plane will scorch if the right temperature is not maintained. As long as you are uncapping, you generally are o.k. New cappings pushes old ones out. However if you pause to load your extractor, or unload frames from the extractor, the unit will overheat. You will get burnt honey. If you like the action of the plane, this can be overcome by adding a thermostat or a control box. Some people talk of a difference on their arms and wrist using the plane or knife.

IntheSwamp...I don't believe the wax melter,(unless it malfunctioned) would get hot enough to burn the honey, however, heat that is hot enough to melt cappings into wax, is also hot enough to slightly change the color of the honey. Test it sometime. Compare the color of the honey that has been seperated from wax to the color from your extractor. It will be ever so slightly darker.

A word of caution, a knife will also burn honey unless you keep the temperature or control setting proper. Don't allow cappings or honey to build up on the blade and burn. If you uncap with the plane or a knife, try to develop a time frame that will keep the knife or plane warm enough to do a good job, but not so hot as to scorch the honey or capps.

I think it all comes down to personal preference. Also might depend on which one you start with. Also depends on how fast you uncapp and whether you have to stop uncapping and do other things, (load, unload, filter, etc.)

Once again, my suggestion.....Try to use one before you buy one. Both are good products. Both will do a good job. Some will like one better than the other. Do what works for you.

cchoganjr

[RABray]

I forgot to mention that my uncapping plane came with a switch on the cord a short distant from the handle that you can toggle the power on and off as you choose.

Cleo C. Hogan Jr.

I think it all comes down to personal preference. Also might depend on which one you start with. Also depends on how fast you uncapp and whether you have to stop uncapping and do other things, (load, unload, filter, etc.)

I agree. I just took a shot at something I had not used, having no experience with anything other than crush and strain, and won this time. I like it and feel it works well. To each their own.

[woodedareas]

The point I was making is that a knife is long and will,of course sit on top of the top and bottom bars. The plane which is adjustable in terms of depth is supposed to fit in-between the bars of the frame. It is more datable than a knife, however, the plane does not fit in-between the top and bottom bars of a shallow super frame but does fit in between the bars of a medium or wider frame. I hope this is clear. If you watch the Dadant video you will note that the plane fits between the bars and does not ride over the bars. Obviously a knife fits on top of the bars as it is wider (longer) and can not be adjusted for depth of cut.

I'm a little lost on your description of how the knife is better than the plane on the shallow frames, woodedareas. Most of the frames that I used the uncapping plane (Kelley handheld) on had comb that stood out beyond the bars a bit and the plane worked very well. The ones that I had to touch up were no problem...skips were hit with the plane again and low spots were touched up with a scratcher. It seems a knife or plane would both be too wide/long to go down between the bars of a shallow.

I'm not trying to be argumentative but rather seriously interested in the difference in using a knife and a plane as I may be getting ready to invest in some honey processing equipment myself. I like the way the plane worked, but...I haven't used a hot knife, yet.

Thanks,
Ed

[Vance G]

The knife will indeed get hot enough to burn the honey if sitting unattended. I always make it a point to keep it immersed in cappings when i set it down monentarily and unplug it if I am not using it for any length of time past seconds. Just another detail thing. I need to put the toggle switch in the cord like someone suggested.

[max2]

"Just another detail thing. I need to put the toggle switch in the cord like someone suggested. "

I just flick the switch on the plug-in board. Very easy and it becomes routine.

[Intheswamp]

What about the knives with the adjustable thermostat? Naturally the adjustable thermostat would be something extra to break-down, but are they good at keeping the knives at a good constant (non-burning) temperature?

I've seen where (places scattered across the internet, not necessarily here) folks have mentioned that they're "going to put a thermostat on my hand plane"....did anybody gotten around to modding their hand plane like that?

Thanks.
Ed

ETA: After a little further surfing the net it looks like most folks are adding a rheostat to adjust the heat of the uncapping planes.

[Cleo C. Hogan Jr]

Intheswamp....I normally use a Kelly Knife and it has a control box. I set the box on 6 while I am uncapping, If I stop for any reason, just dial it back to 2 and lay the knife down on the stainless steel sheath that comes with it. When ready to uncapp again, simply dial back to 6 and proceed. The knife will return to proper temperature very quickly. By letting it sit idle at 2 the knife will not burn, and will be hot enough to immediately start uncapping when you pick it back up. By the time you uncapp the first frame,(20 seconds) the knife is back to normal temp.

I would think that the same principle would apply to an uncapping plane.

cchoganjr

[Intheswamp]

That makes sense, Cleo. Kind of letting it idle while doing something else.

I've been surfing the net some more and I'm beginning to focus on the Harbor Freight router controller. The controller specs state 120v at 15 amps....ohms law equals 1800w...even with resistance/losses it should handle most of the knives and planes which seem to be in the 550-600 watt range.

I was skeptical of it working for a constant current application (resistive heating) but I've read a couple of things that have changed my mind. One is where a guy successfully used it to adjust 220v heating elements (ran at 110v) in a homemade still. This guy did mod the controller so that it had a much larger heatsink, but in our application this doesn't seem like it would be necessary (we would be at half the wattage). Another guy successfully used the controller to regulate camera lighting with the controllers.

I believe both of these applications are higher wattage apps than an uncapping plane or knife would be...the still application equates out to 1375W and I'm not sure about the camera lighting.

Anyhow, just thought I'd throw this out there FWIW. Enter at your own risk.
Ed

ETA: $19.99 regular priced at HF...cheaper when on sale, naturally.