How Much Is Your Apiary Worth$?

[MJuric]

Wouldn't you need to know the value of your equipment for tax purposes?

You depreciate the purchase price, not the "Value". Look at it this way. If I go out and buy a new car for my business tomorrow for 20K I will depreciate that over some number of years. If I take that car and drive it into a wall right off the lot, assuming no insurance, the "Value" of that car is now nothing more thank junk price. I still get to depreciate the 20K purchase price.

Bee equipment is probably similar. Let's say you can throw together a hive, two deeps, two mediums, frames, top, bottom but no bees for an initial purchase price of 200$. Once you get that on your property, assembled, and bees in it, almost no one will give you 200$ for the equipment, it's used. You still get to depreciate the 200$ per hive though. You also get to depreciate the cost of the bees, even if they die and end up with zero value.

~Matt

[MJuric]

Most businesses are worth some multiple of their annual income, say five to eight times their annual income. This only applies if you have a desirable business that others want to own and operate.

I think the idea that the business is worth some multiple of the annual income is true to a point. The other part of the equation are the intangibles like you list, desirability, potential etc.

We've seen this in the past where stock prices, basically a stock is buying a business, being based on the P/E ratio. During the dot com bubble people where buying stock from companies with negative PE ratios, Facebook was something like 80:1 if I recall.

So if you have a company that people really think has potential they pay a higher multiplier. For bees let's say you have a guy who is a profitable bee keeper. He wants to expand. HE goes and looks at another outfit looking to sell. He sees all sorts of things the guy is doing incorrectly and sees a bunch of things he can do to increase profits. The business will be worth more to him than someone else that doesn't see these things...although he will probably try not to pay that much :-)

"Business evaluation" has actually become a market all it's own. We are constantly getting calls for people that want to come in and see what we are doing and see whether we want to sell, manufacturing, not bees. I'm not so sure manufacturing is all that desirable these days either, but none the less there are buyers and evaluators.

~Matt

[Acebird]

Mr. newbee are you asking about cost or worth? I would think for those running a business and not a hobby fly by night you could just go to your accountant and ask him. I think the answer you would get would be the viewpoint of the IRS or a Bank when applying for a loan. There are rules for depreciation. You can't just buy a 30,000 truck and depreciate the whole thing. You also can't depreciate the whole thing over the allotted time and then sell it for 10 grand without giving back to the IRS. I don't know what the schedule would be for bee wooden ware. I am sure the schedule would be different for the mechanical equipment. Problems do arise if you sell a business and don't know what the value is. You wouldn't want to pay capital gains for 100%. I am not sure what happens when you hand it off to a family member. I am sure some value has to be set.

[sqkcrk]

Tax Accounting and Business Accounting are two different things. And, unless one is experiencing Capital Gains, what your business is worth is of no real business or interest of the IRS.

In one of the business classes I took a while ago, making business descisions according to one's annual tax accounting is a mistake.

Business Plans are good indicators of what one's business is worth. They are required by lending agencys for loan approval.

I will stand by my first answer to this question and ask one of my own, maybe two.

Why does the OPer want to know how much my apiary is worth? Does he want to buy it? Seems like a pretty personal question, don't you think?

How much money do you earn at the job you have? What are all of your assets worth? What is the point of these questions?

That's one thing I am curious about.

[Pamela White]

I just started beeking in March and I tell ya, the information and knowledge that I have gained from these little creatures is totally AMAZING!!! I get frustrated sometimes not knowing what all I am doing, but I tell you, the people here are wonderful and give great advice. I look at the "Big Picture", not at all what it is worth. To me, you can't put a price on things you love to do. Many people have businesses or have jobs that they hate, but when you have something you love to do, it is worth every penny. I started beekeeping for them to help pollenate my orchard and if all they give me is that, then I am satisfied. The honey is like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. You give in this world and you shall receive.

[deejaycee]

Why does the OPer want to know how much my apiary is worth? Does he want to buy it? Seems like a pretty personal question, don't you think?

Mr Newbee's posts from the thread about going foudnationless to save the cost of foundation included:

"so i'm viciously embarking on a 500-1000 hive business venture, by means of rapidly growing into in from rearing and splitting and drastically cut cost by building my own hives i an effort to make this as profitable as possible. the cost of foundation is going to cost me aprx 33us$ (live in jamaica) at a total of around 15000us$ per 500 hives."

and

"i want to grow into it quickly and then sell it, the bee industry is just begining to boom here and and there are endless contracts from EU countries that are too large for small local holdings to fill. if i can cheaply grow into a large scale it would be worth a lot more than the start up. "

At this point I'm curious too.

Mr Newbee, do you have any hives at present? Are you a beekeeper? Do you want to be a beekeeper? Or do you just want to build an asset to sell it?

[seal62]

Hobbies and a biz never add up . Para chute ,,6 grand ,15 a lift and a divorce . Duck boat, decoys ,dog food 12 k not including gun or shells , gas, missed work , missed one season in the last 12. Fly fishing ,,au sable river boat, rods , 1000's of hours tiieing flys ,didnt work in the summer for 10 yrs .. ok that was awesome . I did guide ducks and fish but the ppl were a pain , couldnt shoot or fish so i just went with out the income . It was a better day . Lets not start with the dirt bike , the hospital has my records at the ready . I got a skydive next week i cant make because the leg is kinda broken . I started the bike and the wife came out of the house with the crazy look . Bees , This i dig . I just like to watch them ... I dont like getting stiffed by suppliers . The biggest lesson here is finding ppl that you can trust . Im in for about 5k in bees and wood. I make everything but the frames . I got stiffed 3k from a supplier . I can see the good in bad ,,i learned to get a frame of bees threw a mi winter with the help of beesource ..Mike Palmer, Mike Bush , Scottr , Ed , Don , my chat bros and ladies..with boys like these helping how can ya go wrong ? Making money at this is another game . Yes i would like to see some return down the road . Im just not counting on it . The worth of my hives ,,,tranquil sanity .

[NC Queen Bee]

Priceless! I have about $300 in each of hive-- wooden ware, wax, copper tops, treated hive stands, bees. I have 10 hives. BUT the 'apiary' doesn't include the extractor, the buckets, gates, strainers, bottles, clothing, honeyhouse and all the extras to make it easier....I would be heartbroken to have to start from scratch again.. It's like my therapy! Yea, it's priceless...

[bingo223]

Maybe $750 but that is just a guess

[fish_stix]

Sometimes I consider PAYING someone to take the dang things!

[NasalSponge]

One million dollars!! (pinky on lip)

[jim lyon]

One million dollars!! (pinky on lip)

Pssst Dr. Evil there are lots of outfits worth that now, better go for 100 mellllllion dollars ha-ha-ha-ha...........

[Mbeck]

Sometimes I consider PAYING someone to take the dang things!

Bring them over,I'll take care of them free you provide the feed etc.
I just want to pull a few frames for splits every couple months!

[danmcm]

Most businesses are worth some multiple of their annual income,

Ah Blue Sky... It's so pretty let me sell you some.

[JohnBeeMan]

If you buy a $1000 horse and feed it $1000 worth of feed for a year it is still only worth $1000. That is assuming that you did not pay too much to start with.

What an apiary is worth is how much you could reasonably get in a sell of the hives and associated equipment. This would vary by season and area of the country and the reason for the sell. Some sell nucs for $90 and others get upwards of $130.

I would say too many variables to get a good answer.

[Dunkel]

I was always taught not to ask people has much money or how many cows they had. When asked, I just say too many during the winter and not enough at market time.

[curios1]

i have spent 480.00 to date. and learning. have one colonie i bought 125.00, one swarm i caught.and a 4 frame nuc that is working on rearing a queen right now. enough equipmnet for 12 hives.stuff i dont even now about. i told a friend i would like to get into beekeeping. he up his opened up his barn and told me i was welcome to it all. i guess for now i would have to say I DONT KNO!

[David Cassity]

This is funny. Ive thought about bees from a business perspective but running my own business makes me not want to deal with the numbers. Actually a going beehive has a intrinsic value that hive and bees alone don't. But to determine value you have to decide what you are selling. Honey bees queens hardware nucs. With the finished product then you derermine what is opportunity cost( I think) of the finished product and how to maximize that product. That may be at the cost of your bees / hives / expansion f you are to maximize honey. As well as maximize income by honey( assumed product). The value to sell is 15 times income. Unfortunately it assumes the buyer has the knowledge( employee) to run said operation. You are selling that business not hardware bees apiry.

[Daniel Y]

As far as the horse and feed comparison. Is a $1000 horse that is then fed $1000 worth of feed now worth $2000? No but you are confusing issues. The cost to maintain a horse worth $1000 was $1000. But just as in bees if you want to make money you have to be able to recoup that cost in some way. Riding fees, stud fees, show prize money, whatever. If you just want to own a horse you eat it as the cost of entertainment. But the horse is still worth $1000.
Bees produce lots of products along the way. honey. wax, propolis, venom, and even the bees themselves can be sold. If you hold onto them until they die you take the loss. sell them and someone else takes that loss. but eventually they will be lost. it is known as perishables.

Used equipment is worthless. This I agree for the most part. But then explain the person that sells a nuc and adds $25 to the cost for the box. Hmmm. is used equipment worthless? I guess it depends on how you go about selling it. Empty used equipment is worthless.

I see the biggest problem is that the majority of beekeepers are not keeping bees as a business. They will pour money out time and time again with little or no concern for money in. Sooner or later some look back and say hey this is thousands of dollars going out I will never recoup that. Well no you are not if you are not trying. Not paying any attention to it. nobody is going to knock down your door to buy from you.

You can come to a group like this and read for hours about how to get and keep bees. And even at that it is shaky probably going to loose a ton of resources type risk. Btu you don't find a lot of support in selling it.

I have 12 plus years experience with another group that had a similar situation. These people made hand crated items and sold them anywhere from $20 up to maybe a high price of 40 or 50 dollars. For years I felt this group of people suffered from a very common affliction. Undervaluing what they did. I and many others addressed this issue for several years and now it is common to see these same people selling there items for $300 plus on a regular basis.

I see the same sort of thing here to a degree. if beekeeper A says their operation is worth $100 they are right. If Bee keeper B says their exact same operation is worth $1000, they are right. But who is more likely to get what they say their operation is worth? In actually practice and for a complicated list of reasons. It is actually beekeeper B. There is more to getting what something is worth than wishing. There is "Knowing" what it is worth, acting like it is worth that. selling it like it is worth it and closing the sale. Someone that thinks they have something worth $1000 is going to do more to sell it than someone with something they think is worth $100.

I had an item I offered at $20 for several months and never sold a one. I was advised to raise the price to $40. So I did. I sold out the very next show before the gates of the market even opened. My entire inventory sold to other vendors at the market. Not knowing what something is worth will kill a sale before it starts. If you think what you have is worthless you will treat it like it's worth less and it will show. You will act like it is worthless and it will show. You will be embarrassed and hesitant about asking a fair price for it and this will set up doubt in your buyer.

If you can't sell something for what it is worth then you are not a salesperson. hire one. But your inability to sell does not change it's value.

[sqkcrk]

How much is my apiary worth? Which one?