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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
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    Philadelphia, PA
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    2

    Default Packing organic honey without certification

    I would like to start packing certified organic honey, but I am not certified myself. Has anyone done this or know the rules? I am under the impression that I cannot use the word 'organic' on the front label or the usda organic logo anywhere on the package. But I can list organic honey as the sole ingredient and use the word organic on the back. Any info appreciated. Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    moravia,ny
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    1,263

    Default Re: Packing organic honey without certification

    honey is certified. not the packer. there is no organic honey produced in the us. you will have to buy from south America and package. I think you need to do some homework.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Verde Valley, Arizona,United States
    Posts
    28

    Default Re: Packing organic honey without certification

    I also wondered about these things and I found a couple of things. Check the attached site I think it was in section 4.
    http://www.ocia.org/sites/default/fi...N-QS-M-003.pdf
    I also found a organic honey. http://www.ysorganic.com/index.html
    But it seems that none are actually usda approved but certified by other companies. Good luck and beware
    Dan

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Ithaca, NY
    Posts
    99

    Default Re: Packing organic honey without certification

    LOL.......One of the Biggest Farces in the United States. I even witnessed fools selling in Ithaca, NY Organic Firewood at the Farmers market. Do yourself a favor. Look around where you live and ask yourself, is any modern agriculture going on? If so....Neonics likely in area. Is any of your neighbors utilizing Round-up, fungicides, pesticides or any thing else I am forgetting. THen ask yourself, "can any of these get into my hives?" and I think you will answer yes. Most hives are bringing in something not good. Cheers and check this awesome Ted Talks Video https://www.ted.com/talks/marla_spiv...e_disappearing

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Suffolk, NY, USA
    Posts
    689

    Default Re: Packing organic honey without certification

    greathorned: you're right on all accounts. Except that the fool is the one buying the firewood!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    664

    Default Re: Packing organic honey without certification

    Quote Originally Posted by clyderoad View Post
    greathorned: you're right on all accounts. Except that the fool is the one buying the firewood!
    and the honey

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    2

    Default Re: Packing organic honey without certification

    Both the honey and the packer need to be certified. The honey is all ready certified. Has anyone packed organic honey before?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,284

    Default Re: Packing organic honey without certification

    You have certified organic honey to pack? Where did you get it? Who certified it organic? If it is certified organic what makes you think you can't put that on the front label? Have you thought to ask PA Weights and Measures or PA Dept of Ag Labeling Laws? They would be the authority, not some stranger on the internet.

    But, as a stranger on the internet, I will tell you that if you have certified organic honey you can state so on the front label and you should.

    Actually, if you don't have certified organic honey and you state so on your front label somebody will buy it anyway because the word organic is on the label. So what if "NOT" is too. So do what you want to do and tell us how it works out.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Las Vegas NV
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: Packing organic honey without certification

    Quote Originally Posted by beeware10 View Post
    honey is certified. not the packer. there is no organic honey produced in the us. you will have to buy from south America and package. I think you need to do some homework.
    Can someone clarify, labeling aside, if you had your hives 10 miles from the nearest sign of human life, why wouldn't it be "organic?" I get that you may not be able to claim organic, but to say that there's "no organic honey produced in the US" is what I'm trying to understand.
    Tyler Stewart
    TortoiseSupply.com

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Verde Valley, Arizona,United States
    Posts
    28

    Default Re: Packing organic honey without certification

    check the links I posted earlier. That is the only real information I could find.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    lafargeville ny usa
    Posts
    954

    Default Re: Packing organic honey without certification

    it is my understanding that there is no usda standard for organic honey, so no honey produced in the usa is organic. imported honey may be certified wherever it came from but country of origin must be shown on the label [south America, eastern Europe , china, etc.]. it is not real clever to violate the usda laws.
    Last edited by mathesonequip; 12-03-2014 at 01:45 PM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,742

    Default Re: Packing organic honey without certification

    > if you had your hives 10 miles from the nearest sign of human life, why wouldn't it be "organic?" I get that you may not be able to claim organic, but to say that there's "no organic honey produced in the US" is what I'm trying to understand.

    Organic is a certification. The certification is based on the methods. It is not based on whether or not it got contaminated by pesticides. There is no testing. Since the USDA thinks it owns the term "Organic" and since they have no standard for honey, there is no USDA Organic honey in the US. There seems to be a lot of honey that claims to be, though.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    Verde Valley, Arizona,United States
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    28

    Default Re: Packing organic honey without certification


  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Las Vegas NV
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: Packing organic honey without certification

    I have a pound or two of honey at home from Costco, I think, that says "organic honey from the Sonoran Desert of USA and Mexico." Just came across this thread also, which says product of Brazil, but also says USDA Organic right on the label, Kirkland brand from Costco: http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...-Organic-Honey

    My interpretation of it all, then, is that there's certainly organic honey being made, but the debate is in the labeling, or the use of the word organic within the US (even thought Costco is apparently going for it). It would be easy in a place like Nevada to have hives far far away from people (10+ miles, etc).
    Tyler Stewart
    TortoiseSupply.com

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Aberdeen, Idaho
    Posts
    530

    Default Re: Packing organic honey without certification

    Tyler, in the desert southwest you can indeed get bees far enough away from people and agriculture, but without irrigation can they produce enough honey to survive, and a surplus as well. If you have to move the bees into non-organic areas or feed them how can it be called organic.
    Dave

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Las Vegas NV
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: Packing organic honey without certification

    Nevada being an example; you'd have similar available land in areas like Utah or Idaho that would have much more natural forage as well as natural water being available with easy ways to get bees 5+ miles from people. There are areas outside of Vegas with water dripping from out of the side of a mountain all year that almost nobody has ever seen in person, for example, so it's not totally dry.
    Tyler Stewart
    TortoiseSupply.com

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Aberdeen, Idaho
    Posts
    530

    Default Re: Packing organic honey without certification

    Tyler dripping water does not make honey. It takes acres of bloom for long periods of days to make a surplus beyond the needs of the hives. I have almost 18 acres of planted irrigated bee pasture plus the area around me and the last two years my bees have not made enough honey to harvest and get them through the winter without feeding. If I left all of the honey on the hives they would starve by January.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Las Vegas NV
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: Packing organic honey without certification

    LOL, I think we are getting off on a tangent.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Aberdeen, Idaho
    Posts
    530

    Default Re: Packing organic honey without certification

    The point I was trying to make is: there is no place in southern Idaho that could produce a marketable crop of organic honey. Even though we have a lot of federal land. The feds will not allow bees to be placed on federal land. You can put them next to federal land, on private ground, but then you are against agriculture.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    lafargeville ny usa
    Posts
    954

    Default Re: Packing organic honey without certification

    there is a misconception of what "organic" means on a label. it means that the product has been produced by some one that is certified by a group that is approved by and recognized as meeting USDA organic standards. supposedly the producer is monitored by the certifying agency. it is a specification of production methods, much the same as kosher. there is no real gaurentee that the product is really any different in any way... in the case of milk the laboratory quality specs. are identical. the levels of allowed hormones of any type in the milk are identical. the levels of any chemicals allowed in the milk are identical. the big advantage is purely consumer impression and advertiseing. there is no usda organic honey standard.

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