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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    Reno, NV
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    Default Re: Checkerboarding question

    Quote Originally Posted by ralittlefield View Post

    My question is what is important about having empty comb in alternating positions? Why not several empty frames in the center of the box or even a whole box of empty frames?
    I observed that bees will take to empty frames far more readily if they are sandwiched between two full frames.

    Edited to add, I don't break up the brood nest. It can be hard to do with a queen filling every empty cell with an egg. Having observed that I am not sure how much of a problem it would be. at certain times of the year to move the brood nest around. I did not risk it. maybe I will this next spring.

    I was told I would be sorry because I had moved brood further way from the honey. that was not the case. every frame of brood has it's own honey and pollen.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Palermo, Maine, USA
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    731

    Default Re: Checkerboarding question

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    I observed that bees will take to empty frames far more readily if they are sandwiched between two full frames.
    I also have noticed that, but my question is not how to get bee to use empty frames. My question concerns the specific pattern of frames specified in the checker boarding procedure.
    Like us on facebook This is the place to bee!
    Ralph

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Palermo, Maine, USA
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    731

    Default Re: Checkerboarding question

    LOL I think that I withdraw my question!
    Like us on facebook This is the place to bee!
    Ralph

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    3,586

    Default Re: Checkerboarding question

    If I were to guess (and it would only be a guess) is that the alternating of honey and empty comb above the nest represents a damaged nest configuration (bees would never raise brood below empty comb) but also a reserve of food and the confidence three the bees are well provisioned.....just not well enough to swarm.

    The mist common legitimate objection I hear for his plan is that there are many ways to accomplish the same goals....checkerboarding may work, but so do other simpler plans.

    Deknow

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    4,395

    Default Re: Checkerboarding question

    Quote Originally Posted by ralittlefield View Post
    Is the answer to my specific question in the manuscript?
    i believe the answer is there, and even more useful info.

    i agree with what has been in the other replys.

    during spring build-up, the bees are expanding the brood nest into the adjacent honey stores.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,395

    Default Re: Checkerboarding question

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    If I were to guess (and it would only be a guess) is that the alternating of honey and empty comb above the nest represents a damaged nest configuration (bees would never raise brood below empty comb) but also a reserve of food and the confidence three the bees are well provisioned.....just not well enough to swarm.

    The mist common legitimate objection I hear for his plan is that there are many ways to accomplish the same goals....checkerboarding may work, but so do other simpler plans.

    Deknow
    right on the money dean.

    this method is most useful for those of us who use a single deep and shallow or medium supers.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    santa monica, ca
    Posts
    175

    Default Re: Checkerboarding question

    I think I read somewhere that one of the things CBing does is set some guides for the new comb, ie if you put a bunch of empties next to each other the bees will build a comb so thick on one that the next one they build will be deformed away from the first.
    Buzz Abbott
    USDA zone 11a, Western Garden zone 24 (75 ft elev. n34.0w118.47)

  8. #28
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    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
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    2,923

    Default Re: Checkerboarding question

    Quote Originally Posted by buzz abbott View Post
    I think I read somewhere that one of the things CBing does is set some guides for the new comb, ie if you put a bunch of empties next to each other the bees will build a comb so thick on one that the next one they build will be deformed away from the first.
    I have seen this for myself. It is compounded if the foundation is not nearly perfectly flat also. But the bees can make quite a mes of a box full of foundation. Eventually it starts getting cleaned up though. bees will chew away comb that is not suitable to them and rebuild.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    havana fl
    Posts
    1,357

    Default Re: Checkerboarding question

    Quote Originally Posted by ralittlefield View Post
    I also have noticed that, but my question is not how to get bee to use empty frames. My question concerns the specific pattern of frames specified in the checker boarding procedure.
    The manuscript is called nectar management not checker boarding. It has nothing to do with the brood nest only the honey supers above the brood. If you do it the way itís described in the manuscript there is absolutely no concern with killing the brood in the brood nest cause ya donít touch the brood at all. In his initial trial Pg. 37 they had 2 deeps and a shallow removed frames 3,5,7, of HONEY in the super and top deep and replaced them with drawn brood comb. So I guess ya can do it with 1 frame if ya want.
    Iím really not that serious

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: Checkerboarding question

    foundation and empty foundationless frames aren't involved with checkerboarding, only drawn comb is used.

    in a nutshell, and for those who have overwintered in a single deep with one super of honey above, checkerboarding is taking a second super of empty drawn comb and mixing it in with the honey.

    like this:

    h = honey d = drawn comb (these are two medium or shallow 10 frame supers, with only 9 frames)

    h d h d h d h d h
    d h d h d h d h d

    the 'nutshell' reason is to keep the bees from having a solid dome of honey reserve overhead, in an effort to
    prevent swarming.

    the side benefit is you may get a bigger honey harvest.

    it worked as described on the one hive i had enough drawn comb in reserve to do it with. i'll be doing several others next spring.

    walt's papers also describe what to look for in the hive, prior to seeing swarm cells, to see if they are making preps to issue a reproductive swarm.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Palermo, Maine, USA
    Posts
    731

    Default Re: Checkerboarding question

    The purpose of checker boarding, or nectar management, is to prevent the colony from "thinking" that they have sufficient honey for casting a swarm.

    That being the case, I see no reason that the empty comb placed in the super above the brood has to be in any particular pattern. It seems to me that replacing any frames of honey with drawn comb would serve the same purpose. I do not understand why frames 3,5, & 7 are specified.

    The term checker boarding may be an unfortunate choice of words. Nectar management seems more descriptive of the procedure.
    Like us on facebook This is the place to bee!
    Ralph

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    4,395

    Default Re: Checkerboarding question

    Quote Originally Posted by ralittlefield View Post
    The purpose of checker boarding, or nectar management, is to prevent the colony from "thinking" that they have sufficient honey for casting a swarm.

    That being the case, I see no reason that the empty comb placed in the super above the brood has to be in any particular pattern. It seems to me that replacing any frames of honey with drawn comb would serve the same purpose. I do not understand why frames 3,5, & 7 are specified.

    The term checker boarding may be an unfortunate choice of words. Nectar management seems more descriptive of the procedure.
    you would think. mr. wright has addressed this specific question several times on the forum, and emphasizes that it takes drawn comb to make it work.

    my personal experience this year was 7 out of 7 overwintered nucs swarmed not long after i put foundation above the brood nest.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: Checkerboarding question

    oops. sorry ra, after re-reading your post, i see that you weren't talking about foundation. my apologies.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,395

    Default Re: Checkerboarding question

    more to your point. the idea is to expand the broodnest as well as making them think there are not sufficient stores. if they get the queen laying in those alternate frames, they will use the honey and expand into the adjacent ones.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

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