Drift from one hived nuc to another , and what to do?

**Rob Hughes** · 07-03-2012, 10:25 AM

Hi all.
Starting out beekeeper. Ordered 3 nucs to get going. One was a standard nuc box but the other 2 starter colonies came in a kind of 'semi-detached' setup, a regular deep divided in half with two entrances. What do I know. I picked them up and took them home. Then it rained for 3 days straight. So I took the semi-detached box to the yard and opened the entrances (small auger holes), and waited for a fine day to hive them up.

The single nuc box was easy, move over the frames to the new hive box, then shake out the stragglers. Then I see this isn't going to be so easy with the semi-box. So I decided to hive one side first, then do the second a day later, at that point I could shake out the remaining bees.

So for colony#1 out of the semi-box, I transferred the frames over - looked good, lots of bees, and I saw the queen go in safely on frame 3. There were stragglers in the now vacated side of the nuc box but I figured they would follow the rest to the new hive box, set up about 4 feet away on one side. Knowing the queen was in there, I assumed they would sort themselves out.

So next day I go back to transfer the other lot over (colony #2 in the semi). Right away I noticed that there was a lot of activity in front of this remaining nuc colony, and apparently not much in front of the one I'd hived the day before. Anyway, I proceeded to transfer the second lot. I checked on colony #1, and the four frames had a decent number of bees on them, although the colony seemed quiet.

Yesterday (after a couple more days) I went back to have another look, and again was struck by a lot of bees active in front of colony #2, and not much happening at colony #1. Thinking about it, I think that perhaps the foragers from #1 that were out when I did the first transfer came back, found no frames left in their side of the semi box, and decided to join the other side of the box, instead of going over to their new hive. if this is correct then colony 1 may have suffered a hit on its forager force which may put it in trouble, while colony 2 is the presumably preparing to go into orbit. There is lots of food available from many acres of wild raspberries and the sumac has just come out, in addition to field wildflowers.

Recommendations? Should I do anything and if so, what? I am not sure how I can persuade the drifters, if that is what has happened, to go back to their original colony.

many thanks

Rob

**gmcharlie** · 07-03-2012, 11:28 AM

Swap locations to transfer foragers, doesn't even have to look like the same hive, just based on location. Move brood if neccasary to keep them balanced for now.

**Rob Hughes** · 07-03-2012, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by gmcharlie

Swap locations to transfer foragers, doesn't even have to look like the same hive, just based on location. Move brood if neccasary to keep them balanced for now.

I had wondered about that. So as to not just flip the problem from one hive to the other I assume I'd have to do this for only part of a day, so as to get a decent proportion of the excess foragers back in the hive where they belong, then switch the hives back again? How about 4pm to sunset, then put the hives back where they started from again after they're all back for the night?

Rob

**Acebird** · 07-04-2012, 07:12 AM

Why ruin a good thing? If one hive is going gang busters just rob from it to support the other. Be careful not to transfer the queen.

**BeeCurious** · 07-04-2012, 07:23 AM

Don't ruin a good thing by disrupting the brood nest of the strong hive!

Just swap positions of the two hives...

**Cedar Hill** · 07-04-2012, 08:38 AM

Rob, You waited too long to rehive the nucs and allowed them to construct a "memory" of the position of their nucs the day you open the entrances. I would not exchange positions of the hives, too dangerous. Many beekeepers advise to exchange positions of the hives to "equalize" their populations. When a strong field force arrives to its hive and senses an entirely new queen pheromone, the likelihood of their "balling" the queen is quite great. Consequently the hive that was to be reinforced by the field force is actually regressed several weeks by the loss of the queen. Never exchange the positions to equalize populations unless you want to have them requeen the hives. However, you could safely exchange empty drawn out frames for frames of sealed brood with clinging nurse bees. Next time you buy a nuc, you should position it exactly where you want the hive right from the start or split that double nuc the very day you bring it home so that no "location memory problem" is created. OMTCW

**JRG13** · 07-04-2012, 11:04 AM

I'd probably swap, but don't do it at peak activity. If you swapped them at night, you could probably get a couple hundred foragers coming back in the morning. A temp swap probably won't work as the new work force would probably not re-orient in the morning and end up back at the old hive again since they're in the same area. I guess you could try to force them to re-orient in the morning but since it's so close it probably wouldn't work.

**Rob Hughes** · 07-04-2012, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Cedar Hill

Rob, You waited too long to rehive the nucs and allowed them to construct a "memory" of the position of their nucs the day you open the entrances. I would not exchange positions of the hives, too dangerous. Many beekeepers advise to exchange positions of the hives to "equalize" their populations. When a strong field force arrives to its hive and senses an entirely new queen pheromone, the likelihood of their "balling" the queen is quite great. Consequently the hive that was to be reinforced by the field force is actually regressed several weeks by the loss of the queen. Never exchange the positions to equalize populations unless you want to have them requeen the hives. However, you could safely exchange empty drawn out frames for frames of sealed brood with clinging nurse bees. Next time you buy a nuc, you should position it exactly where you want the hive right from the start or split that double nuc the very day you bring it home so that no "location memory problem" is created. OMTCW

Thanks to all for this and the other comments. I feel bad for the apparently weakened colony. I was concerned about potentially starting a battle by switching hive locations and either causing more unwanted strife or endangering one (or even worse) both queens. That really would be a disaster! So I am tempted to just leave them for a bit and see if the weaker colony can tough it out. I added a shim on top and a pollen patty and sugar patty on the weaker one last night in case they are running low on food due to the reduced forager force. Now it has started raining again, next fine day I will do a closer inspection of both hives. I have to add another brood box this week anyway to keep ahead of the stronger one. I'm still a bit anxious about exchanging frames between hives unless I can be 100% sure about not transferring the queen by accident.

I have learned many lessons already, next time I will not go for any of these double nuc boxes. Maybe easier for the guy raising them, but not for the recipient!

Rob

**gmcharlie** · 07-04-2012, 02:24 PM

Returning forageres with goods will always bee alllowed in with no problems.... Swap would be close to permanat if you decide to do it....

**Goldprospector** · 07-04-2012, 08:19 PM

Swap the location...BUT when you exchange them, cut a very leafy branch, or even a cedar branch and stand it in front of the new "Strong hive but leave the weak hive open...Most of the foragers will re-orient themselves to the branch in front of the hive, but some will go back to the original location. You get most of the bees staying with the strong hive and some of the bees going into the weaker one.