Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Thornton,Colorado,USA
    Posts
    42

    Default In need of second opinion

    Hi there,
    This week I captured a hive (kind of small) and not sure weather i should feed them or not since it's july 1st. Please look at the pics.
    http://s1205.photobucket.com/albums/...ent=7-1163.jpg
    http://s1205.photobucket.com/albums/...t%3D7-1161.jpg
    http://s1205.photobucket.com/albums/...t%3D7-1160.jpg

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Arlee MT USA
    Posts
    548

    Default Re: In need of second opinion

    I would. It can't hurt at this stage.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Washington County, Maine
    Posts
    2,947

    Default Re: In need of second opinion

    Feed 'em. And stay out of the fire!
    Master Beekeeper (EAS) and Master Gardener (U Maine CE) www.beeberrywoods.com

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Jacksonville, Florida
    Posts
    1,695

    Default Re: In need of second opinion

    Yes, I would feed them. All that comb looks like it is new comb. I assume you will cut them out and put them into a regular hive? They will need to fix the comb and draw out more comb to build up enough for winter. So they have a ways to go. Feeding will help them out.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,799

    Default Re: In need of second opinion

    Nice looking swarm. It looks like they found a bird house and are doing well. You could leave them alone and see if they make it to Spring and then switch them over to a Lang or do it now and try feeding them. I am sure people will have a fit because I said to leave them alone but if they make it you will know they are good survivor stock. You will probably get 10 other opinions so it will boil down to what you want to do. Do you have other hives?
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Pigeon Falls, WI
    Posts
    2,528

    Default Re: In need of second opinion

    Just because a swarm survives the winter doesn't make it survivor stock. Many first year hives will survive their first winter but the second winter they fail ......because of varroa.
    Leer Family Honey Farm-Shannon Leer

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,799

    Default Re: In need of second opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by Beeslave View Post
    Many first year hives will survive their first winter but the second winter they fail
    Every year you split the hive. That makes one a first year hive and one a second year hive. The second year hive is your honey producer the first year hive is your winter survivor. Feeding will not help the varroa problem, it is more likely to hurt.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,664

    Default Re: In need of second opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Every year you split the hive. That makes one a first year hive and one a second year hive. The second year hive is your honey producer the first year hive is your winter survivor. Feeding will not help the varroa problem, it is more likely to hurt.
    Can you provide some links to back up any of the above?

    While bees that overwintered did "survive", that hardly qualifies them as Survivor Stock.
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    3,072

    Default Re: In need of second opinion

    What is survivor stock?
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Pigeon Falls, WI
    Posts
    2,528

    Default Re: In need of second opinion

    Acebird- The discussion is about a swarm. Swarms go through a broodless period which reduces the varroa load.....therefore a swarm that survives the winter can not be labeled "Survivor Stock" as the term applicable to beekeeping.
    Leer Family Honey Farm-Shannon Leer

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,799

    Default Re: In need of second opinion

    Where did I say they are "survivor stock" although it is possible it could happen?
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,664

    Default Re: In need of second opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Where did I say they are "survivor stock" although it is possible it could happen?
    Posting #5
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Limestone Co, Alabama
    Posts
    1,674

    Default Re: In need of second opinion

    It doesn’t matter if these bees are the most mite tolerant or I should say the most mite in-tolerant bees in the universe, feed them. What good are they to you (or to anyone else) if they starve to death while proving it, feed them.

    What good are bees that don't need food? They don't need honey (or at least not as much honey) either, feed them.
    No organism is starvation tolerant bees included, feed them.
    Scrapfe---Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied.--Otto von Bismarck.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Moyock, NC, USA
    Posts
    207

    Default Re: In need of second opinion

    Ivashka,
    Feed the bees because they won't eat the syrup unless they have to. When they have a nectar flow they will stop eating the syrup. Please tell me the snow picture is a few months old..

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Campbell, Wyoming USA
    Posts
    438

    Default Re: In need of second opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    What is survivor stock?
    I'm also curious as to what qualifies as survivor stock?

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,799

    Default Re: In need of second opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by BeeCurious View Post
    Posting #5
    You right, I can't edit it out now. I should have said good survivors.

    Why do I avoid feeding? Because it creates a dependency and it is not as healthy for the bees if they get their own nectar. Put a bird feeder out in your yard and then stop filling it and it could kill the birds you attracted. Is there an emergency right now to feed? They built all that comb so there must be some nectar somewhere close.
    Some of you people treat bees like dogs or some other dependent pet. I treat them like insects. Their ability to survive would be better served by less intervention.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Maryville, tn, usa
    Posts
    208

    Default Re: In need of second opinion

    Feeding wild birds builds a population that can't support itself... is that the point? Cause this is agriculture we feed chickens so they build numbers and remain health enough for us to reap a harvest... Feed to help build a hive feed a weak hive in bad times if you want to cull for better genetics then pinch the queens who's hives aren't producing in a good year/flow. Just my two cents but not feeding because it's un-natural is funny it's not natural for bees to have to rebound with no stores after being robbed each year.

    Daniel
    Maryville, Tn

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Evansville, IN
    Posts
    2,505

    Default Re: In need of second opinion

    Bees do not lose their foraging behavior because you feed them in a dearth. They will only become dependent if you feed them to the point they cannot forage enough to survive if you take the feed away, and what usually happens then is that the queen quits laying and the hive goes into maintenance mode until the next flow, just as they do if you don't feed.

    Bees brains are too small for them to learn much -- otherwise they woudl all teach each other to rip out pupae with Varroa mites on them and mites would not be a problem! Feeding them can result in a swarm when you don't want it, sugar syrup instead of honey in your supers, and possibly too many bees in the hive, but you will not convert a hive of bees into "welfare bees" by feeding too much.

    You can safely ignore the "eipgenetics" noise on this issue -- no one, to the best of my knowledge, has demonstrated that feeding bees on a flow does anything but put syrup in the supers, and that will in fact be invert sugar if fed as 1:1, might not even be excess sucrose in it. Typically bees will stop taking the syrup on a good nectar flow anyway -- it's less attractive to them than nectar.

    You could easily breed for poor foraging behavior, but it won't happen unless you contantly feed and select for queens whose hives decline rapidly when you stop feeding.

    A hive in a nest box, as is the case with this swarm, is going to have a difficult time come winter -- large hole, limited space, and even if put into a standard hive, it's late in the season, at least here, to collect enough nectar and pollen to survive a typical winter. May or may not be true where the hive is located, but even in a mild climate that's not much storage.

    I would put it in a nuc box, feed syrup and protein, and plan to carry it over the winter as a two story nuc rather than attempt to built out two deeps, or even a deep and a medium. Not gonna happen in S Indiana this year.

    Peter

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,799

    Default Re: In need of second opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by danmcm View Post
    Feeding wild birds builds a population that can't support itself... is that the point?
    No, feeding makes the bird overlook a food source that may be harder to get. They will be at the feeder like clockwork. Chickens can live completely on their own in warmer climates that don't have a dearth. Bees can live completely on their own even with a dearth. What the person has is a swarm which either happened naturally or happened by someone feeding too much. Asses whether it needs stores in September or October. Feed it now and it might just fill the comb with brood and not store anything. They have 0 invested in this swarm. Why not wait and see want develops?
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,664

    Default Re: In need of second opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    I should have said good survivors.
    No, you shouldn't say "good survivors".
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads