First samples of my queen rearing attempts

[Lauri]

I'm pretty tickled about how well my first queen rearing attempts have gone. I really wonder about the dinky queens I bought last year. Maybe that's why I had more winter losses than I though I should have. Another reason to learn to raise you own.

My hand grafts have been about the same success as the Nicot type Mann Lake system. I finally have them both figured out somewhat. And have my starter hive up to strength and finisher hives managed. I also used a cloake board system. All worked well as long as stupid here got ALL the wild queen cells out..not just some. Grrr..
The Mann Lake graftless system is a lot more complicated that what they tell you in the directions..which are down right wrong in my opinion.
Thanks to all of you, especially Velbert for your web sites, photos and information you kindly shared. Helped me be successful pretty darn quick.

I do have a good recipe for pollen patties and syrup . If you are interested PM me. (Hint.) Vitamin/Electrolytes and cider vinegar.











Below is an interesting queen Out of a solid black Carnie, 100% of all daughter queens so far are this color. Very fat and easy to spot on the frame.Not a good photo, they are quite large. Huge black thorax and very blond fat, long abdomen.




You'll notice all but one of the photos shows the brood pattern. That's because these queens are newly mated this week..and this large already. Can't imagine how big they will get when they mature.

Below you can see the left side of the divided deep was successful in a mated return, right side was not.

[Mbeck]

Nice job!

[sfisher]

Sweet looking queens, I am going to pm you for the pollen pattie recipe. Steve

[BigGun]

Why don't you just share. Please?

[winevines]

Super nice work. I am sorry I could not make it fit to meet you while I was in WA. When I started someone told me that the queens we raised would always be better than store bought queens. Not sure if that is exactly true, but when they are shipped they stop laying and shrink down and can look pretty darn dinky when you install them. We are having some success here in Northern Virginia... not the harder part perhaps, assessing and picking the good ones. Looks aint everything you know!

[Keth Comollo]

Them is some nice looking queens. Hope they perform to their beauty!!

[Clairesmom]

Very nice looking queens. Good job!

[oklabizznessman]

Very nice looking girls and my vote was to go ahead and post your recipe

[G Barnett]

Great looking queens. I hope to try my hand at queen rearing someday. Of course I have to figure out just keeping hives first!

[westernbeekeeper]

WOW! Those are awesome queens. Great job! Are you selling any?

[Lauri]

Had to take my elderly mother to the doctor today and am catching up on chores. I'll post the recipe asap. I need to make another batch so I'll be careful to measure the ingredients and post it here.
It may be nothing new, but I use a good amount of cider vinegar, olive oil and a pinch of AgriLabs vitamins & Electrolytes 'Plus'. here in the info in this. I chose this brand because it says it has acidifiers.
Here is a guess at the measurements:
25# cane sugar
1 1/2 quarts very hot water
1 1/2 quart very hot cider vinegar
1 1/2 cups olive oil
1/2 tsp electrolyte mix (A package will make 128 gallons of syrup or water..figuring out the amount was just a guess) you could probably add more..but be careful not to over dose.

Mix this well. I use a 1/2" drill and a paint mixer wand.

Add ABOUT 12 cups of BEE PRO from mann lake. (If you use ONLY bee pro, no matter how soft you make your patties they will get rock hard in a very short time.)
So I also use brewers yeast

Mix in the bee pro WELL. It will be soupy. Let it sit to absorb the liquid for about 10 minutes.

Then add ABOUT 12 cups of Mann lake's BREWERS YEAST. Add this slowly and mix well until it is the right consistency..A real fine line between too runny and too stiff. If you use only bee pro you would need to stop when it is very soft as it will harden to a manageable finished product. WIth the bee pro AND brewers yeast, you can mix it and it will not change much..you want be able to scoop it easily, yet not have it flatten out without some pressure. I buy precut non-waxed paper from a restaurant supply and use a 1 cup ice cream scoop. Makes portioning out a snap. I will take photos of all this, so if you have never made patties before you will see how to do it. All mixed in a 5 gallon bucket. Just adjust your liquid and dry ingredients to get the desired consistancy you want.

I have to say,with this recipe the bees just WOOF them down. They are quite soft and stay that way for several days. ALso since I have been using brewers yeast in the mix, my labs absolutly love them too! Darn dogs steal them at every opportunity. Ane if I do get a chunk that turns hard, the horses love them too.

My syrup also has cider vinegar and electrolytes..about 1 cup vinegar per 5 gallons.
I use to use Man Lakes Pro Health too, but I didn't see any advantage. The bees like it with or without and it is spendy. It smells good though I'll save my remainder for my spray bottle.

I feed well before , during and after trying to graft . Once the cells are capped I do remove the syrup so they won't be so inclined to build comb over the cells. I still struggle with this though..not sure what to do. Once the cells are capped I will put an undrawn frame next to it so they can have something to play with other than the cells.

Also even though they have been bring in lots of pollin, they still relish these patties.

As far as selling queens,
I am going to requeen all my hives first, then will sell any excess. I would sell capped cells though if you are local. I am limited on mini mating nucs and they are all full.
Next year I will be better organized for some sales.
Only one of these queens has a known lineage, the Glenn inseminated Carniolan. (I will be buying a sample of each of Glenns queens for grafting next year.)

Some of the best queens are from a swarm hive I collected last year. If you are not picky about knowing the genetics the queens will be evaluated and overwintered and some daughter queens will be available next year.
Here it is:
It is a nice photo. I should make a copy and give it to the home owner.

[Lauri]

I just talked to the guy I bought my bees from this year. I asked him how everyones bees were doing and he said "it has been a horrable year'
He said it was surprising how many people lost their bees..they ether starved or swarmed. and the drone population was unreal.
I had found a difference in the drones this year too..I'll write about that later.
But He was very surprised when I told him I was almost ready to sell nucs and I thought his head would spin of his shoulders when I told him had queens.
These are the same bees everyone else was loseing? I was pretty happy I have just stumbled onto management and feeding that seems to work.

Oh yea, be sure to get Real Apple Cider vinegar. I bought a case of four gallons of Heinz, then saw it was apple cider Flavored vinegar..not the same thing!

I'm sure it's because I've read many opinions here on Beesource and just applied in my own way.

Hope this helps too.

[Lauri]

Thanks to all who PM'd me. LOL, quite a reponse and a lot of questions. Here are some photos that may help:
Heres my starter hive. I started out with a nuc, but as I found instead of removing a frame of bees to insert my graft, I just put them in a 10 frame and made a follower board to keep them corraled and adjustable. As I add frames of capped brood, I planned to remove empty frames, but since they have been fed continually they filled the empty frames with feed-so i'm leaving them in for now.


You can see, even though they can access the other side of the board from the top or bottom, they stay crowded on one side only. I use this to my advantage since in a queen right hive an established mated queen will never cross that barier. In fact It is so striking that the barrier impeeds the queen I now cut three corners off my foundation before installing it in the frames for easier communication and access. I'll start a different thread on that with pics.


I love my queen marking tube! I keep it in my left pocket and use it almost every day. I never pass up the oppertunity to mark queens..every time I fine one I mark it. I also write on the hive if the queen is marked or not and what color she is for fast loaction next time.


I do not mark virgins though. Some do. I've not had the chance to try that yet to see if it makes any difference in acceptence or return.

Another trait I like about these 'Fence Post ' queens. They draw nice straight comb and almost no drone comb. Most of my other hives would have drone sized cells below the half sheet of foundation.


Electrolyte mix I use



Photo of liquid and sugar mixed..bee pro, brewers yeast and my mixing drill



Pre cut 6x6 food grade paper and 1 cup scoop


Heres about the consistancy it should be..just top with another piece of paper




Any extra I will just freeze or refigerate in a food saver bag or gallon zip lock. As I mentioned, everything likes these patties. My big aluminum cooking sheet you see in the photo? When that is empty of patties, but has chunks of patty residue, I put it in the yard and fill with water so soften it so I can clean it. By the next morning is will be full of slugs, which I let the chickens eat. Feeding frenzy everywhere I look!

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Miller...56954971040510

[Mbeck]

As always good photos thx.
You couldn't resist showing us your bear carving again could you!

[Lauri]

Mbeck, you like? Hee hee, me too.

Good thing he isn't real though-he'd have a party with my hives.

Heres one other photo. Out of my 2011 Glenn apiaries carniolan inseminated queen. Most of you know typically a virgin queen will be runny and hide on the frame when you expose her. These Glenn virgins are especually so. Instinct I assume ..probably in order to avoid predators while outside the hive. I have to say, so far out of 20 hatched Glenn cells, I have 20 mated returns.
The others are about 70% mated return.



Above is the daughter queen about 1 week after mating, below is the original 2011 Glenn inseminated mother queen:

[sqkcrk]

Seeing those queens makes me selfconcious about my manhood. Those are some of the longest abdomens I have ever seen on a queen. If bigger is better when it comes to queens, I'd say those are better.

Good job. Good photos. Thanks Lauri.

[Daniel Y]

I have a question. If I wanted to make a one time attempt at grafting queens. After I remove bees from my hive for the cell starter. Can I just give them back to the parent colony after the day or so they are used to start the cells? Or is there some "Method" required to putting them back? I just don't want to get a nuc of nurse bees killed cause they lost the correct odor or something.

[coopermaple]

Wow Laurie great job with your queens! We are getting ready to graft our 3rd batch tomorrow. Going to give your patty recipie a try.
Sounds like you did what you should have to have your new bees thrive. Great photos as well!

[KevinR]

Awesome job, maybe I'll get a fencepost queen from you next year. *grins*

[spunky]

Good job, thanks for posting