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Money?

32K views 84 replies 27 participants last post by  Oneupsuperdog 
#1 ·
Can anyone tell me on average how much money a person can make on each hive that is doin well with making the honey in the southern states? As in arkansas and Louisiana?
 
#4 ·
Solomon Parker is our resident AK specialist.

But, this is an answer almost impossible to supply. Too many variables. How good a business person are you? Are you treating your beekeeping like a business, or like a hobby? If the latter, the enjoyment factor outweighs the investment return factor.

A friend of mine w/ a cpl thousand colonies figures he spends around $175.00 per colony each year. I haven't asked him what he earns from each colony.
 
#16 ·
Solomon Parker is our resident AK specialist.
Never been there.

Here in Northwest Arkansas, there are a few beekeepers but no commercials. There is only one commercial operation that I know of and that is down in the delta. So it can be done.

This year, I harvested about $1000 worth of honey and sold three queens and three nucs. If I don't watch out, I'm going to start breaking even. This is my ninth year and this is the first year that I'm coming close to breaking even. Part of that is I'm in the first year where I have as many hives as I want. I'll lose some this winter to even the numbers out and set me up with drawn comb and then I'll be right where I want to be.

You want to make money? Have as many hives as you want, no more, no less, and make sure it's a sustainable population. That's all I have for you. Exactly how much is wild eyed speculation at best.
 
#7 ·
Each year is different depending mostly on the weather.
It is a wonder anyone tries to make a living at farming...

$175.00 per colony each year.
What would be normal? Can I ask what your ballpark figure is? I have to wonder now if you dumped your bees in the fall and bought new in the spring would your costs be this high?
 
#6 · (Edited)
The value of your product will vary greatly depending on where you are, what's your competition, quality, and what's your attitude. And are you good at marketing. The one key that I recommend, is that if at possible, cut out the middle man. If you don't have the time to run your own sales point, see if you can sell it on consignment at local stores. That will at least support your profit margin a little more than just selling it to the store so they can mark it up 100%. After all, one can go to Walmart and get bulk honey for $2-3/lb. But that's because a packer somewhere bought it by the barrel for probably less than $1/bbl, from a commercial beekeeper that just wanted to get rid of it. If you have surplus, don't just dump it to a packer at a low cost, unless you absolutely have to. It doesn't go bad, so if you have space, just store it up until you find a more lucrative outlet. As Michael mentioned above, last summer was bad down here, and honey was hard to come by. With the drought, the cost of hay for livestock shot through the roof, and people were importing from as far away as Iowa. Not sure that honey jumped that much, but it's just a good example of how climate is also a factor.

But IMHO, the quality of store honey doesn't hold a flame to the quality of my own, fresh out of the back yard. I harvested out 3 lbs a couple weeks ago, cut it as chunk comb, and sold it for about $6/lb. I sold all four jars before noon, simply by bringing them to work and telling a few friends. I also set out a jar of incidental honey that I had collected when fixing comb problems. It was cloudy with pollen, but the taste was not compromised. I meant to set it out as bait, for samples, but also by noon, someone took the "free" on the lid a little to literal, and swiped the whole jar! Whoever it was didn't even bother to say "thanks":no:

Be proud of your product, and don't waste a drop. Use everything you can from the hive, and you should see good value, as long as the margins and the market is there to fill. I'd also recommend focusing on niche markets. Again, you can go buy liquid honey almost anywhere. But have you ever seen chunk comb on the store shelf? Not I. What's funny to me, is cutting chunk comb is actually less work than extracting (again, IMO), yet I can demand a higher price as it is a hard to come by commodity, and people absolutely love it! In AR and LA you might find the market already saturated with "local" honey, and that is certainly where the biggest gains are. For once I am lucky to live in the suburbs, because very few people keep bees in the city, even with the recent trend in urban beekeeping. The upside to this is higher demand, as well as a more diverse customer base. Plus in the suburbs, so many people have flower beds and flowering trees, my bees basically work from home!

The best thing I believe one can do from a marketing standpoint, is to first establish good will, even if it mean losing a little at first, like my jar of "free" honey. It got attention, and I just left a note beside it to call me for more information.

Then again I didn't even mention apitherapy, package bees, or queen rearing. I think all that will fall under a niche market heading. I'd like to try it all some day. Vertically integrate using what is best for you. I don't know how one guy could spend $175/hive in a year, unless he is feeding a lot, and counting in tangibles like fuel into the cost of a hive. Seems he must be putting in a lot of new packages or something. I spent $135 to get one package and a clipped/marked queen. Another $60 in the hive, and $50 worth of a cheap suit, smoker, and hive tool, and I'm in business. If my splits take, I'll be up to 4 hives in a couple weeks. From an asset standpoint, each established colony could sell for $200-250. A nuc (as they are now) should sell for around $150. So if I sold three as nucs, I'm already over double my original investment. I don't intend to do that, but perhaps you can see the dollar signs.

I don't mean to make it sound like it's too good to be true, because indeed it is...for now. If your serious about trying to make money as a beekeeper, you can't do it because you think you will be cashing in on honey money. Chase those niche markets and you should see better margins. Or again, vertically integrate.

Alright, I've probably put everyone to sleep, I'm out!
 
#8 ·
I don't believe any beekeeper really wants to just dump bees in the fall and buy more in the spring. But the majors that focus on pollination for example, may not have the time or resources to overwinter 1000's of hives. It's easier from a business standpoint to just set them in the outyard and pray. The time/resources they would have to invest in feeding and maintaining the hives through the winter would outweigh the cost of just replacing a package in the spring.

Just to clarify, I'm not lashing out at pollination service providers. Again, it's just another niche market, and from a business standpoint, you have to do what makes money. After all, I paid $135 for one package of bees, because I just bought one. The majors buy 100's or even thousands of packages at once, earning a substantial discount from buying in bulk. Some package supplier out there cashes in early, as it is easier to do that than expend the effort of trying to sell one package at time to some hobbyist like me. Now a good pollination services company would buy out that package supplier, to lower their costs that much more, and raise profits.

My goal in beekeeping is to experience every facet of it as quickly as possible, and then decide which key items are best for me to pursue. So let's say, I'll focus on raising bees and manufacturing hives, so then I can sell established colonies. The honey I would sell just as extra cash. If your goal is to make all your money through honey, then you better find a way to really cut the cost of your bees. If you want to sell bees you better find a way to get cheap feed and queens.

In the end, bees are just another form of livestock, just like raising cattle or hogs. People just don't realize it, and think that bees are something special.

I cannot speak for ballpark figures, as I have not been in it long enough to even estimate. I have spoken with a friend about his friend that does commercial pollination services. This guy runs 3-5000 hives. If each hive gets $100 for pollination, do the math, that's $500,000 per pollination job, assuming he uses all hives. If they all survive, and can be moved, say from CA after the bloom up to the NE for blueberries and cherries, he might pick up another $100/hive there. But there are massive costs incurred in between on transport and maintenance. In the end, in a good year, he may pocket $150-200K, which is nothing to snub your nose at. But that takes a lot of work, and even more risk to run a program that big. In a bad year he stands to lose just as much.

I've been keeping a detailed balance sheet of my paltry operation. Part is for proof to my wife that it is not always a losing game. The other part is for records. If I do find it to be a losing game, then I'll know that I need to change my strategy or abandon the chase. The people that lose everything tend to keep poor records and run a pretty bad operation. I'd venture to say that the ones that lose big, are the same ones that buy in too big, expecting to make a quick buck without truly understanding the bees or the market. Start small, and when you find what works, ramp up quick. And don't always look to cash in early. It takes six years to create a new breed of orchid flower, but when it sells, it can be game changer! Patience will prevail.
 
#9 ·
You can make money off of your hobby bee hives in the south if you try - after you stop spending a lot of money on equipment.

Last year I overwintered 10 hives and harvested an average of a bit more than 15 quarts each from 7 of them. My feed cost was ababout $20 per hive, medication was almost nothing. That was one year - my first honey year, not every year. You can do the math.

It wasn't a lot, but it paid for my equipment up to that point including a small maxant extractor. This year my honey is looking a little better, and I have only bought some frames - so profit should be better. I might make a dollar an hour.

Also my entire extended family gets to enjoy homegrown honey all year.
 
#10 ·
Here,in a bad year,$0.00.In the best of all possible years,when everything goes just right,
around $300.00.That would be with the sale of some honey and a nuc or two.I freely admit that I have not had that second scenario happen to all hives in a single year.I am happy with something in the 100-200 range.Mine is a backyard operation and I don't do pollination.
Everyone's operation is different.
 
#12 ·
I understand that commercial beeks are in it for the money, however, I'm in it for the enjoyment. I walk over every morning, just to watch the girls fly in and out. I love watching them. I'm diabetic,so don't really care about the honey, however, I ama candle maker, and do care about the beeswax. To each his own.
 
#14 ·
The most I have ever made off of a single hive in a single season was about $500.00 That was after expenses. But that was using the hives in nuc production and selling 8 nucs from each hive.

With the longer season you should be able to do better than that.
 
#19 ·
It all is dependent on what you are willing to do. Nobody making a living keeping bees is doing so by selling honey alone. Their money is in pollination contracts and the sale of excess bees. If you are willing to sacrifice all honey production with the aim to make money it can be done.
 
#17 ·
If you ask around people will tell you that there is more money in selling bees than honey but the OP specifically asked about honey. If two dollars is the going rate for bulk honey than a hive that produces 100 pounds brings in $200 gross. Even with all the variables I can't see the average being too far away from the $200 mark.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Someone in your State should be able to tell you what the average per colony production for your State is. Your State Apiculturalist or someone like that. Then do the math according to what you can sell that amount of honey for. That'll give you a guesstimate.

Here in NY, I know, not AR or LA, I had an average per colony production of about 30 lbs. So, selling that honey at about $3.00/lb that's $90.00 per colony. I also averaged $38.80/colony for pollination, across all of the colonies I had. Even though I didn't use all of my colonies in pollination. But, that's how one averages things, isn't it? I also sold some nucs. Around 100 nucs @$80.00 each. So, on average, what would that be from 500 colonies. $16.00?

$90.00 plus $38.80 plus $16.00 equals $144.00 income per colony. Somehow that doesn't look right. I must have missed something. If it takes $175.00 to support a hive, then I've lost $31.00/colony. Which I don't think I did. Something is wrong w/ my figures.

Better luck to Onesuperdog.
 
#25 ·
$90.00 plus $38.80 plus $16.00 equals $144.00 income per colony. Somehow that doesn't look right. I must have missed something. If it takes $175.00 to support a hive, then I've lost $31.00/colony. Which I don't think I did. Something is wrong w/ my figures.
It is a hard life isn't it? Everything looks like a cash cow when you look and the money coming in. It is not until you look and the money going out that you can differentiate between the cow and goose's egg.
 
#23 ·
I thought we were talking the average beekeeping outfit. I didn't consider package or queen producers. You are probably right about that.

Larger outfits not pollinating or migrating? Hmmm, the largest do. Maybe you know some large ones who don't. Ones I don't know of ort are familiar with. That's possible. I'll concede that.
 
#24 ·
I think the average in TN/AR area is ~40lbs per hive, but who knows what you will actually get. It's all about the area your in and the nectar sources.

I've spent somewhere around 3-5k on bees, woodenware, and associated gear over the last 3 years. I started with one hive and now have ~35.

I've only extracted a little bit of honey. ~9 gallons off 2 hives last year and ~6-7 (80 1lb bottles) gallons off 1.5 hives this year.

My honey has been selling for ~5 bucks a pound and expect to make $360 off honey sells. So in a perfect world that is full of rainbows and kittens, I "could" have made $12.5k off honey the 35 hives.......

I'm sure I would have gotten more honey, but I've been splitting the bees pretty hard and raising queens. I should have my first 10-15 queens for sale on July 9th, which could be another 300 bucks.

Eventually, I see the possibility of making money, but currently.... I could make more working a weekend of overtime.

I plan to get up to ~200-500 hives in the next couple years. I might start making some money with honey, queens, and nucs.... But for the moment. I'm still in the hole.

-Kevin
 
#26 ·
I plan to get up to ~200-500 hives in the next couple years. I might start making some money with honey, queens, and nucs.... But for the moment. I'm still in the hole.

-Kevin
What is your infatuation with losing money on bees if you can make a ton of money on the weekends? When you get to 500 hives it is not going to be fun anymore.
 
#27 ·
If you talk about hours worked, I might have the 175 bucks per hive, but I don't have anywhere near that for maintenance cost.

In fact, I don't think it would cost me 175 bucks

$92 on frames/woodenware (top, bottom and 4 supers) and $80 for a 4lb package.

I can feed, graft a queen and split the hive in less than 4 weeks for 100 dollar nuc. *shrugs*
 
#31 · (Edited)
I can't speak for AR or LA states, but I would figure how many hives above 6 frames of brood it would take to take to the almonds in California, where they took around $165 per box last couple of years (although some got as high as $250 late in the season).

Alternately how many could be taken for the tupelo in the Gulf states. This is much different work - very labor intensive, and is the east coast / southern states favorite honey. I would wince to make comb honey unless I was a very small, new operation and could not afford a honey room yet. It is more of a labor of love / beekeeper only / health food zealot kind of thing, ie. not very profitable, but liquid tupelo honey on a good year could put some serious honey bucks in a guy's pocket.

Also, if you read the Cornell university article Adrian Quiney included above, Louisiana beat Arkansas in per hive yield every year from 2003 to 2007. It would take a local veteran beekeeper to tell you WHY...

The artful management of a reasonable mix of pollination, package bee / overwintered nuc sales, honey production, queen sales, and the 30+ other ways of making money in this biz should keep you in the black about half of the years decade in, decade out. If you are already an almond grower, I could see doing it to save money. If you own a different business that makes money in short bursts and you're looking for something to do with all the excess time on your hands, it is a good sideline sometimes. Watching the stock market is a better one, as are arbitrage, trading gold, and flipping houses. A Chiropractor who works 4 days a week could keep bees 2 days a week and make a little extra money sometimes. A guy who owns a pizza joint has to work every night and could never make it in the bee biz.

It appears that for a career, move to California, Florida, the Dakotas, or Hawaii and get big and/or mobile or keep it a small to mid-sized sideline or hobby elsewhere. You still have to be already good at it to make it here in California, that is to say past the steep part of the learning curve, adept at spotting diseases, knowing how to treat everything, intuitive about hive and queen manipulations, etc., or you won't make it in a bee business even with mild winters and a 10-month bee season. Hawaii is a 12-month season, but you couldn't go there and make money in your first year - there's too much to learn and it is soooo different. Better to move into ND in the summer and out in the end of the summer. Florida requires lots of local knowledge like Hawaii.

For steady income, work for the government, or sell insurance.
 
#33 ·
No, I seriously doubt it. I also wouldn't want to add the price of a load of docks, deal with the gulf oil spill, the fires in the panhandle or any of the rest of it, but a discussion of bees and money would require its mention. the conclusion of my post was work for the government if you want money...on second thought become a lawyer and a doctor who owns his own insurance company!

If you happen to be in the Tupelo zone, that's where the money is. I happen to be in the Almond zone.The poor soul starting the thread is between the good money.
 
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