PF-120 foundation

[Barry]

I was afraid that question was going to come up. I haven't gotten that far yet. I think I'll simply drill two small holes in the flange about 10" apart and nail it down into the bottom bar. Anyone have a faster way of attaching it?

[Solomon Parker]

Small nails? Big staples? Silicone? Epoxy?

[WLC]

I noticed the ladder comb between two mediums w/ PF 120s just this morning when I tried prying off the top body with the hive tool. I'm glad I keep a carving knife in the beekeeping bucket otherwise I doubt I would have been able to twist it off.

Then I had to scrape off the ladder/burr comb from the PF 120s.

You can feel the PF120s 'give' when you work them with the hive tool.

Barry, are you still glad you ordered them?

I put some foundationless frames between the drawn PF 120s to see if they draw out the comb 'regressed' or not.

[BeeCurious]

Anyone have a faster way of attaching it?

Hot glue gun. I have HSC held in wooden frames by hot glue.

[Solomon Parker]

I've taken to only prying between the end bars. It's about the only strong part of the frame.

[Riskybizz]

Barry you might also try using one foundation support pin through the end bars on each side at the bottom to hold the foundation tight

[westernbeekeeper]

Barry,
Why are you cutting them to fit, instead of just purchasing foundation? Also, did the frames/foundation have any warpage upon arrival?

[Solomon Parker]

There is currently no 'small cell' foundation available in plastic. Back in the early '00s when I started, Dadant came out with some, but it had very shallow cell walls and was almost universally rejected by the bees. In comparison, I have only had one PF frame misdrawn thus far, out of about 300 that I own. Probably about 200 currently in hives.

I haven't seen much warpage on delivery, but I have seen a little develop later on. Barry will have to comment on his experience, but the pictures look pretty straight.

Also, I recommend against black. If you leave it in the sun for just a few minutes, it will get hot enough to melt the wax.

[oblib]

Barry, did you find a good way to attach it yet?

[Barry]

Benjamin, as far as I know, the Mann Lake plastic SC does not come in foundation only. Otherwise I would have ordered it for sure.

oblib, I've put this project away till winter since it's too late to use this year. I'm leaning towards either drilling two small holes in the bottom flange spaced 10" apart and using brads to fasten to bottom bar or trying the hot glue method.

[oblib]

I was leaning toward the hot glue but was hoping you had already tried a method or two

[BWrangler]

Hi Guys

This year is my first experience with PF-100s, although I've worked lots of commercial hives with other plastic frame brands.

The plastic material in the end bars is very thin and won't take much compression without crumpling. So, squeezing that last frame into a tight space will damage it. It's a common practice with propolis on wood frames.

Posted my thoughts on PF-100s at:
http://beenatural.talkingstick.me/ma...lastic-frames/

Regards - Dennis

[crabbydad]

i'm a first year beek and i have these frames. my bees seem to like them. my only complaint is the openings in the ends. bees get in them when i am removing frames. when i reinsert the frames they trapped in the openigs and die.

[dnichols]

I have a couple dozen PF's and for the life of me can't get the bees to take to it. They crawl all over it but never build comb. I don't like the plastic frames either. They seem flimsy to me so I like your idea Barry. Maybe I need to paint them with some thicker wax.

[WLC]

I checkerboaded PF 120s and foundationless frames in a foundationles hive. Now, they've built in the PF 120s only and not the new foundationless frames.

It's been a dearth, and I'll be putting a feeder box on the hives shortly, but I was surprised.

By the way, I did see alot of DWV, and lost a bunch of nucs w/ the exception of one. No feeding or treatments.

The survivor is in a deep, and I'm going to baby it through for next spring.

It can get really hot on the roof, and quite frankly, while spring looked good, July and August knocked the heck out of em.

However, I am going to bring the survivors through on Ritecell.

Call it a hunch, but I like the way it performed. I will still keep working on the small cell/ foundationless in the meantime.

By the way. I've killed alot of bees trying this out.

[JRG13]

I've got a bunch of these in my new hive, the bees do ok on them but I'm thinking of trying small cell foundation from Mann Lake to see how that goes. If anything, I will do as Barry has and chop the edges off and use wood frames. I got stung last time cuz a bee got in the recess and I put my finger over her and pulling on flexing plastic frames cuz it was bridged at the bottom was a pain.

[Riskybizz]

I purchased 8-10 cases of PF-100 and PF120's, mainly because it was an inexpensive way to go compared to assembling my own wood frames like I normally do. I also wanted to try out some small cell frames. My bees tend to draw it out equally compared to other plastic cell foundation. I almost always coat on some of my additional melted wax to get them on the plastic quicker. Like any other type of foundation they will draw it out when they are ready to, based on the nectar flow. The problem for me is that the gap space between the bottom bar of one frame and the top bar of the next box. Someone posted that because of the size of the plastic top bar the bees tend to draw out bridge comb and ladder comb in this space. This presents a major problem when manipulating colonies, removing supers and putting the hives back together. You either have to take the time to scrape the wax and honey comb off the top and bottom bars or risk killing lots of bees setting the boxes back together. For me anyways my bees never wax-out that space between the supers with wood frames and plastic foundation. Perhaps this is a design flaw that Mann lake might look at, (i'm sure this is not just happening to me.) If it were just my honey supers it would not be a big deal but I used it a lot in my deep brood boxes and it ends up being quite a mess, in many cases. For me its back to all wood. I'm not a huge fan of plastic frames.

[Solomon Parker]

Michael Bush has some views on why that is. He says it's partly because of the thickness of the topbar and partly because the plastic frame gives no opportunity for drone comb. It is a downside.

[JRG13]

Ben,

I pulled a few undrawn ones out, one sat in my car, it bowed slightly, the comb section did, but I wouldn't say it's not usable anymore or anything though.

[Riskybizz]

I had Michael Bush in my beeyard in July and we discussed it. I'm not so sure it concerns drone comb sizing though. Its much more of a spacing issue and related burr comb issue because of the frame size and construction. The simple solution would be for Mann Lake to just start selling their PF small cell foundation in sheets to install in wood frames right Barry..If I remember this weekend i'll bring my camera along and take a few pictures of this issue.