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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,674

    Default PF-120 foundation

    Received my order of PF120's (Mann Lake) today. Having used the Dadant plastic 4.9 in trials and it not working so well, I can see why this design works so well for many. Don't like plastic frames, so I'm cutting off all the frames and putting the foundation into my wooden frames. Works just fine.




    Used a piece of 3/4" plywood to set the frame on and run through the table saw leaving the bottom bar attached.


    Fits nicely into a wooden frame.


    Completed frame.
    Last edited by Barry; 07-10-2012 at 04:18 PM.
    Regards, Barry

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,113

    Default Re: PH120 foundation

    I still have five sheets of the Dadant stuff. Did not even get part of one done correctly on multiple tries. You can have it if you want it.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,674

    Default Re: PH120 foundation

    No, I have my box of it that I'll keep for my collection of failed foundations. Have some aluminum foundation as well. But to their credit, they were the first to spend time and money on developing a plastic SC foundation.
    Regards, Barry

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Montgomery, Tx
    Posts
    161

    Default Re: PH120 foundation

    What do you not like about the plastic frames?
    -Jay

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,674

    Default Re: PH120 foundation

    The plastic part of them. I don't like the feel, I don't like the look, and I don't like the flexibility. I'm a wood guy.
    Regards, Barry

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
    Posts
    4,153

    Default Re: PH120 foundation

    I've deployed about 200 pf125s this year - the first time I've really tried plastic frames. I definately prefer wooden frames, but probably not enough to go to that much trouble.

    Shame it isn't available in sheets.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Great Falls Montana
    Posts
    4,298

    Default Re: PH120 foundation

    I have seen examples of all the deficiencies that people speak of, but about the same proportion of other foundations are misdrawn and I can clean off the plastic and start over! Everyone feel free to ship me all your hated plastic foundation. It must be drawn on a good flow and it needs to be spaced tightly. I run it thru a table saw and draw 11 frames . Throwing in one frame at a time, except in the middle of the brood next, does result in problems most of the time.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
    Posts
    4,153

    Default Re: PH120 foundation

    For ME plastic foundation is the only way to go - plastic frames, not so much. However, they are quite convenient - and that is worth a lot.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    brownwood, TX, USA
    Posts
    862

    Default Re: PH120 foundation

    Does anyone sell plastic foundation in a wood frame?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Santa Monica, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,544

    Default Re: PH120 foundation

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Received my order of PF120's (Mann Lake) today.
    Wow!
    Very ambitious project. Very nice job. How many frames? Sergey

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,674

    Default Re: PH120 foundation

    I ordered 30 frames (mediums), enough for one hive. After I see how this goes, I'll either order a lot more or keep using my wax foundation.
    Regards, Barry

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Columbia, Missouri, usa
    Posts
    211

    Default Re: PH120 foundation

    I have been using Mann Lake PF120 for three years and it has worked great. I always install 10 fames in a box. After the bees draw the comb in a honey super, I usually remove one frame and space out the remaining 9 to make the comb deeper and eaiser to remove the caps

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Clark county, Illinois, USA
    Posts
    220

    Default Re: PH120 foundation

    dang it Barry, I was jusr thinking about my order for next year (everal hundred pf 120's) and how I like the foundation but hate all the ladder comb due to the top bar being thinner. Now I will probably spend hours and hours cutting them and putting them in wooden frames.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Issaquah,WA,USA
    Posts
    2,429

    Default Re: PH120 foundation

    Getting them built out is the trick. You need a good flow on for that. So I put in built comb every other frame so 5 and 5 and they seem to do it quicker.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Stillwell, KS
    Posts
    649

    Default Re: PH120 foundation

    Quote Originally Posted by oblib View Post
    dang it Barry, I was jusr thinking about my order for next year (everal hundred pf 120's) and how I like the foundation but hate all the ladder comb due to the top bar being thinner. Now I will probably spend hours and hours cutting them and putting them in wooden frames.
    Wondered what has been causing all the burr comb, it's a pain and I don't have that issue with wooden frames.

    Can't see spending $1.75 for frames though and still needing another frame

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,113

    Default Re: PH120 foundation

    What is ladder comb? I'm not sure I've seen this.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Santa Fe, NM
    Posts
    713

    Default Re: PH120 foundation

    Sol

    The ladder comb is bridge comb that the bees attach to the top frame of one to the bottom frame of another to communicate with. I have noticed that my bees do this a lot with the Mann Lake PF series. Barry I really like your idea, and you did a great job. Thanks for sharing. I much prefer wood frames but have tried to work a lot of 4.9 into my yards. I hosted a field workshop last Sunday at one of my beeyards with guest Mike Bush, and we discussed the small cell applications. I might try cutting a few down like you did.
    "Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay".....Krishnamurti

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,674

    Default Re: PH120 foundation

    I know D Semple did the math on frame costs, but to me, I already have the wooden frames and I have to put something in them. It might be a tad more expensive than straight foundation, but since I'm not aware of anyone else selling the equivalent in foundation form only, it's a small price to pay.
    Regards, Barry

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,113

    Default Re: PH120 foundation

    I see. I am familiar with that, just not by that name. I'll make note of it for future usage.

    From talking with Mike, I was led to believe that it was largely a method to get some drone brood into the hive because PF frames don't really allow for it. I'm attempting to provide at least foundationless frame in each box to compensate. This is the first year of that scheme so I'll see how it works out.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Santa Fe, NM
    Posts
    713

    Default Re: PH120 foundation

    Barry

    After you rip down the plastic frame how do you attach it to the bottom bar of the wood frame? Not clear by the picture.
    "Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay".....Krishnamurti

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