new weak nuc placed in the location of moderate sized hive?

[windfall]

What would happen if I made up a new, weak nuc; say 1 deep frame of mixed age brood, 1 frame of pollen/nectar maybe with some brood too and a new queen (in cage), and then moved a moderate sized hive and placed the nuc into that location?

Will the large influx of field bees boost and carry it along, or will it just overwhelm the nuc and make chaos/failure when they come back and find strange bees at home?

The specifics are:
I have a colony in one end of a long hive that has gotten much larger than I want. They are also a bit aggressive and that entrance faces toward the deck and is quite close.
So I am moving them elsewhere in the same area but a bit away from house traffic. They were only supposed to be in that end for a "little while" last summer as a convenient place to stick a swarm control split...and here they are still getting bigger....It's gotten a bit silly with 2/3 of the box (22frames) plus a deep super on one end, and the other end (10 frames) plus another deep on top of that.

I could just move them out, pull the follower boards and let the returning foragers join the hive on the other end of the long box. They might like the boost as I will be stealing from them for 1-2 nucs soon.

But I was thinking maybe I could just make one of the nucs weak, stick it in that end and viola: I don't have to steal from the donor so much, I shrink the back end down to 5 frames or so, and I don't have to find a place to keep a nuc that will be above the snow come winter...

[johng]

The returning bees will boost the nuc. But, I think you would have a better chance if you give the nuc a little more brood. Two frames of capped brood with a laying queen and the work force from the other hive should give you a nice little nuc. Just put the nuc on top of one of your full hives. Look up Michal Palmer he overwinters nucs up North and could give you some good advice.

[ralittlefield]

Would the nuc be in danger of being robbed?

[johng]

Not from the returning foragers. They will go on in the nuc and become part of the hive. It is a very common practice to equalize hives or boost weak hives this way.

But, weak nucs are always in danger of being robbed. So keeping the entrance very small and keeping an eye on them is always a good idea.

[windfall]

I have read up on MIke Palmer's techniques extensively, and for the most part will be following his system. But he warns that july nucs have to be watched carefully, often building too fast and swarming. So I think building one "full strength" by his formula (2 frames brood, one of stores, and an empty) and then letting the field force from the moved hive in as well...too much. He warns against even adding extra shakes.

I suppose another option would be to put the shaken frames into the new location and let the returning foragers repopulate them?

I know it is common to swap hives too equalize and strengthen, but that's hives that are up and running. I was not sure is it could be safely done in this way, with a small number of new frames, and a queen not even released yet....

I am pretty sure MIke moves his single story nucs in fall to a different yard to stack them on regular hives for the winter (not an option for me)...it would be a real hassle stacking them all season long.

[Keth Comollo]

I believe Mike has changed how he deals with winter nucs from his popular YouTube video. I believe he will present his modified version at EAS here in Vermont in August. He no longer stacks nucs in single boxes on top of production hives to overwinter out of the snow. He puts his double nuc on an old deep hive body as a stand. When they have filled the four frames he adds a super with four frames of foundation in late July-early August I believe. This foundation keeps the bees busy on the fall flow, they don't want to swarm, and the two story config with a top entrance allows the bees to deal with deep snow without sitting on top of a production hive. The four frames of honey is all the nuc needs for food till spring. It works. I can say that because I saw it with my own eyes. Very few deadouts and healthy hives in the double nuc base with the supers above. An amazing sight.

[windfall]

Well, that certainly sounds like less work than moving a couple hundred nucs twice a year!

I hope to catch Mike's talk and a few others at EAS, but it is looking like I will be out of town for a family reunion...darn family always getting in the way of things