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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    Lakeland, FL USA
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    775

    Default Trap-out or smash open cinder block wall?

    .

    The lady isn't willing to pay too much money, but she is ok with either a trap-out or smashing the wall into the bees and not holding me responsible for repairing any nec damage. I would hope it would only mean chipping away the cinder block with a hammer.

    She said this hole is only a foot-or-two off the ground. What a HORRIBLE photo:



    So anyhow, is this even worth doing for almost nothing?

    Would a trap-out be easily done, especially so low to the ground?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Lyons, CO
    Posts
    3,027

    Default Re: Trap-out or smash open cinder block wall?

    That might be the only time I would try a trap-out. Here's the thing: it will of course leave all the comb and stores inside the wall. If she's OK with that (it is 'crete, after all), try the trap-out. I wouldn't consider trying a smash-out without a firm written agreement and payment.
    Bees, brews and fun
    in Lyons, CO

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Lakeland, FL USA
    Posts
    775

    Default Re: Trap-out or smash open cinder block wall?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Brewcat View Post
    That might be the only time I would try a trap-out. Here's the thing: it will of course leave all the comb and stores inside the wall. If she's OK with that (it is 'crete, after all), try the trap-out. I wouldn't consider trying a smash-out without a firm written agreement and payment.
    Hmmm,

    I'm headed to youtube to see if I can find anyone removing bees from a cinder block wall.

    Not sure if this venture is even going to be worth the trouble.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Lakeland, FL USA
    Posts
    775

    Default Re: Trap-out or smash open cinder block wall?

    .

    This guy is just going to destroy them.

    ISN'T THAT JUST SPECIAL !??!?!


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,806

    Default Re: Trap-out or smash open cinder block wall?

    Cinder block will be easy to break. Be careful of the blocks above that are supported by the ones you need to break. basically you need to remove blocks in a V shape from the bottom up and I woudl guess there is a considerable area inside the wall that a hive covers. I don't think I would break the wall unless the owner wanted it removed.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Lakeland, FL USA
    Posts
    775

    Default Re: Trap-out or smash open cinder block wall?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    Cinder block will be easy to break. Be careful of the blocks above that are supported by the ones you need to break. basically you need to remove blocks in a V shape from the bottom up,.....
    Thanks for that tip. Makes sense to me.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Russellville, AL
    Posts
    47

    Default Re: Trap-out or smash open cinder block wall?

    I am doing one right now in a block wall. all is going well. i used a bee escape taped over the hole. Works well.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Lakeland, FL USA
    Posts
    775

    Default Re: Trap-out or smash open cinder block wall?

    I'm guessing that in a trap-out, I would need existing brood with eggs in it?

    I don't have that available right now, if that's the case.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Lakeland, FL USA
    Posts
    775

    Default Re: Trap-out or smash open cinder block wall?

    Wow,

    look how long these combs extend down in a cinder block wall:


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Lakeland, FL USA
    Posts
    775

    Default Re: Trap-out or smash open cinder block wall?

    I've been slacking on studying trap-outs.

    So, in the following video - two questions:

    How come the bees travel OUT of the cone but not back in? It sure looks like a large cone opening

    EDIT - I just read where their sight is not coordinated enough to find the small end of the cone and go back in. Also, they are attracted to the smell coming from the base of the cone.
    and

    What does he have in the hive to attract the bees? existing brood?


    .

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Lakeland, FL USA
    Posts
    775

    Default Re: Trap-out or smash open cinder block wall?

    .

    Alright, from what I understand, I really need fresh eggs in brood comb for a trap out to work.

    I guess i can scratch that option.


    Crap, because it would be so easy. The hole is only about a foot-or-two up the wall.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Rockford, MI
    Posts
    2,434

    Default Re: Trap-out or smash open cinder block wall?

    Do the trap out. Just place the hive body with empty (with foundation) frames next to the entrance (as close as you can), against the wall. Install the cone over the opening. I attatch mine through a piece of plywood, stapled to the back of the ply and screwed to the mortar joints. Be sure to caulk the egde of the ply. In a few days you will have the bees start to take up residence in your hive. Wait two to three weeks before you remove the hive. IF you wait, most often you will get the queen as well. Done this many times.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Lakeland, FL USA
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    775

    Default Re: Trap-out or smash open cinder block wall?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Beeman View Post
    Do the trap out. Just place the hive body with empty (with foundation) frames next to the entrance (as close as you can), against the wall. Install the cone over the opening. I attatch mine through a piece of plywood, stapled to the back of the ply and screwed to the mortar joints. Be sure to caulk the egde of the ply. In a few days you will have the bees start to take up residence in your hive. Wait two to three weeks before you remove the hive. IF you wait, most often you will get the queen as well. Done this many times.
    Well, this morning I woke up and called a fellow bee keeper who lives near me and deferred the job to him because I don't even have a bee vac yet and didn't want to open that wall without being fully prepared.

    If I would have read your post about doing it WITHOUT brood in the trap hive (and still possibly get the queen) before I called him, I may have ended up trying it that way.

    I am agnostic about the whole idea that the queen can also be retrieved in that manner, but I suppose it's true since so many have claimed they've done it.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,731

    Default Re: Trap-out or smash open cinder block wall?

    Pat Beek... Others.. The probability of getting a queen with the cone funnel method is virtually O%. In the early stages of a trapout, the queen is not going to come out for anything you put in your bait hive. This would amount to her leaving her established colony, which she is not likely to do. As the colony is depleted she may come out, still, very little probability she will go into the bait hive. Far more likely she will swarm, (abscond) with the remaining bees in the feral colony, when there is little to no honey, pollen, nursebees, etc to sustain the feral colony. At that point you may catch the queen in a swarm situation,or, you may not.

    I have used the cone funnel method, many, many, years ago, and in a very limited number of cases, it is still a good way to do a trapout, but, by making your trap an intregal part of the feral colony, rather than detached from it, is a much better method. I would still use the cone funnel if 1. You cannot seal all entrances, 2. Height or other considerations make it too dangerous to mate your trap to the feral source. 3. No way to attach transition or trap, to the feral source. (You can be very creative). 4. No way to get a frame of unsealed brood. (This can be overcome by using the funnel in the trap and getting every bee that comes out and cannot get back in, same as the cone funnel. If you do this, it is the same principle as the cone funnel.

    Trapping, as an integral part of the colony, will get you lots of bees within 24 to 36 hours. That many more more in 36 to 48 hours. There will be fewer bees as the days go by, rather than several bees at the end of a week or two. The bees are in a normal, natural situation. The trap is just another part of their colony. As you get three to four pounds of bees, move them, (I move just the frames, not the trap), and add a new queen. You get the right mix to start a new colony, whereas in the cone funnel method you get mostly field bees until others come out for cleansing flights or relaxation. If you don't need the bees, contact your local bee club and give them to someone. Contact your local school or 4-H Club and see if someone needs a colony for a project.

    If you are not familiar with this system, e-mail me at cchoganjr@scrtc.com and I will send you info and photos of traps in progress. (I will send to anyone). I don't sell this, it is all free. I like helping beekeepers as I enter the end years of my beekeeping.

    cchoganjr
    Last edited by Cleo C. Hogan Jr; 06-21-2012 at 09:39 AM. Reason: spelling. additional info

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Lakeland, FL USA
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    775

    Default Re: Trap-out or smash open cinder block wall?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleo C. Hogan Jr View Post

    If you are not familiar with this system, e-mail me at cchoganj@scrtc.com and I will send you info and photos of traps in progress. (I will send to anyone). I don't sell this, it is all free. I like helping beekeepers as I enter the end years of my beekeeping.

    cchoganjr
    Cleo, thanks so much.

    I tried to email the address you provided but it immediately came back undeliverable.

    .

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,731

    Default Re: Trap-out or smash open cinder block wall?

    Sorry.. My typing mistake. I left off the r in my e-mail address. It should be cchoganjr@scrtc.com I have corrected it on my post.

    I won't be able to send until Saturday, I am in Georgia and will not return to Kentucky until Friday Night. I cannot access that file from here.

    I will send Saturday Morning. Thanks.

    cchoganjr

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Little Rock, AR, USA
    Posts
    49

    Default Re: Trap-out or smash open cinder block wall?

    Mr. Hogag/Patbeek,

    I can forward the files Cleo sent me for the trap-out I am doing if you will send me your email at noelmace@yahoo.com, I will forward them to you.
    Trying very hard not to kill the bees faster than they can reproduce.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Lakeland, FL USA
    Posts
    775

    Default Re: Trap-out or smash open cinder block wall?

    .

    Ah, I'm kind of kicking myself for not trying the trap-out at this location.

    Well, I was also pressed for time at the time also. I thought I was going to have to leave for Texas, but that got postponed.

    I have some old comb I could have placed in my top bar hive (as trap). I could have tried it that way and then just bought a queen if the feral queen didn't come out.

    Would this have been a good plan? Because, again, I don't have an existing hive at this point to pull eggs/brood from.

    And by the way, isn't it a risky proposition to bring naked brood/eggs to place in the bait hive? Won't their temperature be a factor? Do you throw in nurse bees from your collection as well to take care of them? I saw a trap-out on youtube the other night where someone did just that. He was filming a few fights happening from the nurse bees and the trap-out bees.

    But again, kind of kicking myself for wimping out.

    .

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Lakeland, FL USA
    Posts
    775

    Default Re: Trap-out or smash open cinder block wall?

    .

    Regarding Cleo's design (of which I got the photos and directions - thanks !!), I would have to build a new hive that has the trap-out entrance made into it. I couldn't have gotten that done in time. I don't have the supplies right now anyhow. That's why I'm going to Texas - to make more money to be able to justify my new hobby.
    Last edited by PatBeek; 06-22-2012 at 09:17 PM.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Lakeland, FL USA
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    775

    Default Re: Trap-out or smash open cinder block wall?

    Quote Originally Posted by tedlemay View Post
    i used a bee escape taped over the hole. Works well.
    Is a 'bee escape' a general term for the cone or a specific design or product of someone here?

    .

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