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  1. #141
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    May 2013
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    Lafayette, LA - USA
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    Default Re: My Ant Proof Hive Stand Actually Works!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    Steel floor flanges, whether you attempt to "pin" them or not, are expensive.

    If you use 1 1/2" pipe, flanges are about $13 each and even flanges for 1/2" pipe are nearly $10 each:
    http://www.lowes.com/Search=floor+fl...=floor+flange#!

    Even when you are done horsing around with getting a flange installed, the area of the dirt that the flange covers is clearly inferior to a bag of concrete!

    If your pipe is at risk of sinking into the ground, why pay more money to buy a flange when a $3-$4 bag of concrete is a better solution?



    I don't have to dig, I don't have to dig next to the hive, and also easier to change up if needed or desired.

  2. #142
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    Nov 2011
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: My Ant Proof Hive Stand Actually Works!

    Of course, you need to make choices based on your local conditions, particularly soil conditions.

    Somehow, I suspect that adding a floor flange to the pipe legs of the hive stand shown in post #111 of this thread won't do much to solve the problem.


    My hives sit on concrete blocks. And if I'm not mistaken, Ace's do also.


    If you wished to avoid digging, and still incorporate an ant block similar in concept to the one in the current thread, one option is to set out some concrete support blocks, then construct a variation of the stand shown in the thread linked below, incorporating grease cups.
    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...PVC-hive-stand

    Personally, I'd try to make the stand as low as possible but still allow access to the grease cups.

    A possible alternative to attempting to ant-proof the hive stand is to to just set the hives directly on the blocks, then set out ant bait around the hives. An inexpensive ant bait can be made from Borax (laundry aid) and sugar with enough water to make a paste. Put it in containers that ants can get into but bees cannot.
    .
    Last edited by Rader Sidetrack; 04-12-2014 at 12:56 PM.
    Graham
    -- The real problem is not precise language, it's clear language. - Richard Feynman

  3. #143
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
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    9,759

    Default Re: My Ant Proof Hive Stand Actually Works!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    Somehow, I suspect that adding a floor flange to the pipe legs of the hive stand shown in post #111 of this thread won't do much to solve the problem.
    Sure they would. You could even drill a hole in a board or a patio block and have the floor flange rest on that. All the concrete does is increase the diameter of the pipe to create a footing. Unless you dig a hole deep enough to go below frost line the pipe will go up and down with the frost. If it is below the frost line it is a standard footing if it is above the frost line it is a floating footing. For beehives it doesn't matter. If the soil is of the same consistency the hives will rise and fall equally.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  4. #144
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    Nov 2011
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: My Ant Proof Hive Stand Actually Works!

    OK, Ace, do I have to PM you to get a simple way to drill a pipe sized hole in concrete patio blocks?

    Or maybe you will just post it here?
    Graham
    -- The real problem is not precise language, it's clear language. - Richard Feynman

  5. #145
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    Utica, NY
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    Default Re: My Ant Proof Hive Stand Actually Works!

    It isn't worth buying a drill. Just take two pavers or four would be better and nest them up next to the pipe in two layers. You are going to be smart enough to put the second layer of pavers 90 degrees to the first layer and then the floor flange rests on the top layer. If you do have a drill you could use a pressure treated 2x6. It will last a long time.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  6. #146
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    Nov 2011
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: My Ant Proof Hive Stand Actually Works!

    Or you could use a $3-$4 bag of concrete to serve the same function as the floor flange and all those patio blocks combined. No drilling of the pipe for the flange "pin" needed either.

    You don't even have to dig a hole for the concrete around the post. A simple form made out of 2x4's sitting on the ground will serve to retain the concrete until its set.
    Graham
    -- The real problem is not precise language, it's clear language. - Richard Feynman

  7. #147
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    Utica, NY
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    Default Re: My Ant Proof Hive Stand Actually Works!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    You don't even have to dig a hole for the concrete around the post. A simple form made out of 2x4's sitting on the ground will serve to retain the concrete until its set.
    If you don't pin the pipe to the concrete the pipe will shrink in winter and it will be like the concrete isn't even there. Up here a fencing contractor will drill a 10" dia hole in the ground over 3 ft deep. The entire hole is filled with concrete and the pipe is set above the bottom of the hole. Now that is for a fence that has almost no vertical load.

    This may be even an easier idea. People buy exercise equipment and before it gets used 10 times it finds its way to self storage. People who run self storage facilities have to throw this crap away because it is heavy and people end up leaving it behind. Seek one out and get some dumb bells which you can use as the flange and they already come with a set screw collar. Moving them around is not fun.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  8. #148
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    Nov 2011
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: My Ant Proof Hive Stand Actually Works!

    So your solution to the problem of soft ground is to risk the stability of the entire hive stand (potentially supporting multiple hives) on single setscrew in a dumbbell collar?



    Just for fun, here's that photo ....



    Graham
    -- The real problem is not precise language, it's clear language. - Richard Feynman

  9. #149
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    Jan 2014
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    Manassas, Virginia, USA
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    980

    Default Re: My Ant Proof Hive Stand Actually Works!

    Dig ten inch diameter hole three feet deep, fill with concrete, and stick a pipe down in it, and what will happen? The pipe is trapped in a cup of concrete, water will collect in and around it, and the pipe will rust off. With a wooden post you get a post sitting in water ... even pressure treated will have a short life.

    Dig the hole, put a stone or paver at the bottom, put the pipe or post against the paver. If you want to use concrete, put some gravel at the bottom of the hole so water drains out, then concrete above that. Don't put your pipe or pole into a concrete cup.

  10. #150
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    Default Re: My Ant Proof Hive Stand Actually Works!

    A galvanized pipe in a concrete footer will last at least 50 years.

    Rader, no I don't suggest a hive stand on two pipe legs as I said in the beginning because of bending moments. Four legs would be bare minimum for me.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  11. #151
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: My Ant Proof Hive Stand Actually Works!

    > will last at least 50 years.

    Did you look that up in some kind of engineering book?


    Wouldn't service life depend on - at a minimum - soil conditions, size of the pipe, stress (flexing) applied, and the specific components of the concrete used? Is there fly ash in the concrete?

    Are we going to go back to that thread where you insisted that concrete wasn't affected by freeze-thaw damage?




    .
    Last edited by Rader Sidetrack; 04-14-2014 at 06:22 AM.
    Graham
    -- The real problem is not precise language, it's clear language. - Richard Feynman

  12. #152
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    Jan 2014
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    Manassas, Virginia, USA
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    Default Re: My Ant Proof Hive Stand Actually Works!

    Regarding 4 legs ... I finally have my variation of Charlie's ant traps installed (a defensive feature of Fort Bee).

    FortBee009Compr.jpg

    FortBee013Compr.jpg

  13. #153
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: My Ant Proof Hive Stand Actually Works!

    That looks good to me.
    (But I don't see any floor flanges keeping those pipes from sinking.)

    Is the Fort Bee fence electrified?


    The name of Fort Bee reminds me of this bee stand ...


    More in this thread: http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...ompleted/page3
    Graham
    -- The real problem is not precise language, it's clear language. - Richard Feynman

  14. #154
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    Jan 2014
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    Manassas, Virginia, USA
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    Default Re: My Ant Proof Hive Stand Actually Works!

    Fort Bee will have a 3 joule fence charger, rated to get the attention of bears. In bee class a few weeks back one of the experts reported bear droppings about one bear length from their fence.

    Behind the electric fence is grounded remesh. The first time I saw remesh used as fencing it was on a tiger cage. It is also sometimes used as fencing around garbage bins. Anything getting across the electric fence and the remesh is pretty much guaranteed to get a "negative reinforcement."

    But now you have me thinking I should have elevated it. The fence posts would hold up a deck ... maybe I should add a second story?

  15. #155
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    Jan 2014
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    Manassas, Virginia, USA
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    Default Re: My Ant Proof Hive Stand Actually Works!

    I finally went back to YouTube and looked up the first time I saw the Charlie B hive stand. He confesses that it was not his idea, but he got it from a guy on BeeSource that had a really cool idea ....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE9kr96bI9E

    Here's my full post on Fort Bee.

    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...95904-Fort-Bee

  16. #156
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    Oct 2013
    Location
    Lassen, California, USA
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    133

    Default Re: My Ant Proof Hive Stand Actually Works!

    Charlie B, thank you so much for sharing. I tested the area I put my hives on, about a week before I got my bees. I put a small chicken waterer filled with syrup on a raised platform, next afternoon I checked it, and it was COVERED with ants. So, got all the supplies I needed for my ant proof stand, I used 2x4's, wooden dowels and 2" end caps, and hi heat disc brake grease, works like a charm!

  17. #157
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    May 2011
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    San Francisco, CA
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    2,397

    Default Re: My Ant Proof Hive Stand Actually Works!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hogback Honey View Post
    Charlie B, thank you so much for sharing. I put a small chicken waterer filled with syrup on a raised platform, next afternoon I checked it, and it was COVERED with ants. So, got all the supplies I needed for my ant proof stand, I used 2x4's, wooden dowels and 2" end caps, and hi heat disc brake grease, works like a charm!
    I'm glad to share. I took bits and pieces from other designs to come up with something that works against these dreaded Argentine Ants. The wood design is less expensive but a little more work to build. My pipe stands are still standing well with little maintenance.
    President, San Francisco Beekeepers Association
    www.habitatforhoneybees.org

  18. #158
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    Jan 2014
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    Manassas, Virginia, USA
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    980

    Default Re: My Ant Proof Hive Stand Actually Works!

    Since I was building Fort Bee I had rented a one-man gas auger with an 8" diameter bit. I was drilling holes up to 3 ft deep. Now I'm spoiled. Lots of fist-sized rocks up there would complicate driving pipes into the ground, although I did manage to get two 8 ft ground rods in for the electric fence using a T-post driver (you have to drive in the last 2 ft with a sledge).

    A T-post driver might successfully drive pipe into the ground, but if you bang on a threaded end you'd certainly destroy the threads. Might try a female coupling over the threads to bang against. A T-post driver is a common tool for agricultural fence posts, a heavy piece of pipe with a heavy plug in one end and a pair of handles. I find mine has many uses.

  19. #159
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    Mar 2011
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    Utica, NY
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    Default Re: My Ant Proof Hive Stand Actually Works!

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoebee View Post
    Since I was building Fort Bee I had rented a one-man gas auger with an 8" diameter bit.
    I have a ford 601 and a 6 in. dia post hole digger. I have to be right on the clutch because it will stall the tractor. Typically I have to dig 10-12 inches at a time and pull it out with the 3 point. I dug one hole with a strapping boy and myself using a hand hold and I was fearing for my life. That's when I went to tractor supply and bought the post hole digger.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  20. #160
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    Jan 2014
    Location
    Manassas, Virginia, USA
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    Default Re: My Ant Proof Hive Stand Actually Works!

    I've used a 2-man auger and that's a machine for throwing two men on their backsides simultaneously. The one man auger worked pretty well. The motor sits on the ground about 7 ft away and takes the torque. It has an automatic clutch that stops it if you hit a rock or root. Then you pull it out and use a digging bar to remove the obstacle. What they don't tell you is it gets a pound heavier every time you need to pull it from a hole, which really adds up after a dozen holes and three dozen rocks and roots.

    I have a Ford 1300 that could mount an auger, but a neighbor with a similar-sized Iseki has an auger for his and he says it's just a machine for shearing shear pins. IIRC a 601 would eat my little 1300 alive, so I'm surprised you could stall it.

    I dug the first hole with a digging bar and post hole shovel. In our rocks, I'm good for maybe two post holes a day that way.
    Last edited by Phoebee; 04-17-2014 at 10:05 AM. Reason: Spelling

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