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  1. #1
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    Default Hygenic test results on breeders



    Last edited by JBJ; 06-16-2012 at 02:56 PM. Reason: adding pics and testing size
    John B Jacob www.oldsolbees.com

  2. #2
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    Southern Oregon
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    Default Re: Hygenic test results on breeders

    These are just a few of the great results at the 24 hour mark. We arrived at a very hygienic bee by selecting for Varroa tolerance. Dr Royce from OSU came down and showed us how to to the freeze killed brood assay. There were some that did not get 100% in the test so I presume they must have other mechanisms for coping with mites. I have been leaning towards the ones that got 100% for the last few grafts but will continue to monitor the other breeders for mite loads and overall success.
    John B Jacob www.oldsolbees.com

  3. #3
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    Southern Oregon
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    Default Re: Hygenic test results on breeders

    The one labeled 13.1 actually cleaned both sides of the comb. I think we may have used too much liquid N and froze it all the way through.
    John B Jacob www.oldsolbees.com

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
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    Default Re: Hygenic test results on breeders

    That amazing! I gotta try that method.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Baytown, TX., USA.
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    651

    Default Re: Hygenic test results on breeders

    Good work! Another person that did this for years was S. Taber, don't see much mention of his work anymore.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Meadows of Dan, Virginia, United States
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    197

    Default Re: Hygenic test results on breeders

    Where do you get your nitrogen, and what do you use to store it?

  7. #7
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    Jan 2005
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    Southern Oregon
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    Default Re: Hygenic test results on breeders

    We used a loaner dewar from a local welding supply shop. I think it was about 10 or 12 liters.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
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    Calhoun Co, Texas, USA
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    1,310

    Default Re: Hygenic test results on breeders

    is there any reason why "dry ice" wouldn't work for this purpose? I know it's plenty easier to come by for the average hobbyist/sideliner beek...hopefully it'd work well too?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Hygenic test results on breeders

    What were the mite loads like? Does this indicate varroa mite tolerance or resistance? I can see how it would indicate hygenic behavior, but, does hygenic behavior directly lead to mite tolerance/resistance?

    What other traits are you selecting for and how do you go about accessing the degree of those traits?
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Orange county, Texas
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    175

    Default Re: Hygenic test results on breeders

    How did you get them to lay around that circle?
    I am a nebee so i am just learning about the bees

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Hygenic test results on breeders

    The OPer can answer from experience, but, you start off w/ a nice patch of capped brood and kill what you can see as an empty circle of brood by applying liquid nitrogen, which freezes the pupae dead. Exactly how this is done, someone else needs to explain. I think a tin can is used somehow, but I haven't done it.
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    souris, manitoba, canada
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    782

    Default Re: Hygenic test results on breeders

    what is the relationship between a cell that has been killed by liquid nitrogen and a cell that has a foundress mite mite in it

  13. #13
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    Mar 2012
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    Calhoun Co, Texas, USA
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    Default Re: Hygenic test results on breeders

    @Tazcan
    The capped larvae that WERE inside the circles were killed with liquid Nitrogen, as sqkcrk said...then the bees removed the killed larvae within 24 hrs. This is done to test the efficiency with which bees will theoretically remove varroa infested/killed larvae from the comb, thus reducing varroa levels in the hive. (or at least that's my understanding of it)

    @irwin harlton
    I believe the freeze-killed larvae are supposed to be homologous to mite-infested/killed larvae to the bees... i.e. it's not necessarily "varroa" that the hygiene is sensitive to, so much as "dead larvae" sensitive hygiene...so the same trait should be pretty efficient against EFB too (once again, in my opinion, and according to my understanding of the principles in practice).

  14. #14
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    Mar 2012
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    Orange county, Texas
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    175

    Default Re: Hygenic test results on breeders

    Thank you for the answer Robherc , i couldn't figure out what was going on from the start of this thread, now i understand.

  15. #15
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    Southern Oregon
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    Default Re: Hygenic test results on breeders



    The liquid N is poured in and then after it thaws the frame is returned and the clock started.
    John B Jacob www.oldsolbees.com

  16. #16
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    Jan 2005
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    Southern Oregon
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    Default Re: Hygenic test results on breeders

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    What were the mite loads like? Does this indicate varroa mite tolerance or resistance? I can see how it would indicate hygenic behavior, but, does hygenic behavior directly lead to mite tolerance/resistance?

    What other traits are you selecting for and how do you go about accessing the degree of those traits?
    We are looking for hardy mite tolerant bees that are productive. We will be doing some sugar rolls soon to put some metrics on current mite loads. All breeders wintered well and easily made the grade for the almonds. We, of course, are looking for all of the usual economically valuable traits. I like a bee that can pay the bills.
    Varroa sensitive hygiene is a well documented trait and does result in lower mite loads. Apparently you can end up with very hygienic bees by selecting from bees that cope with mites well. It is a challenge to keep the selection pressure on but well worth doing. We are taking some steps this year to try to get these traits more "true breeding" throughout the whole population. More isolated mating yards and instrumental insemination will definitely be helpful this year.
    John B Jacob www.oldsolbees.com

  17. #17
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Hygenic test results on breeders

    Thanks. I can tell you've really thought about this. What are your plans? Queens for yourself or for selling to others?
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Indiana, Clay County
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    569

    Default Re: Hygenic test results on breeders

    Thanks for posting and keep up the good work JBJ

  19. #19
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    Jan 2005
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    Southern Oregon
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    Default Re: Hygenic test results on breeders

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Thanks. I can tell you've really thought about this. What are your plans? Queens for yourself or for selling to others?
    We do both. We usually make between 5 and 7 thousand queens a year and have been working on this project for about 12 years. Its time to start keeping more of them ourselves to grow the operation a bit.
    John B Jacob www.oldsolbees.com

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Hudson, WI USA
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    2,242

    Default Re: Hygenic test results on breeders

    What is interesting to me is that you said "We arrived at a very hygienic bee by selecting for Varroa tolerance". My understanding is that Marla Spivak and Gary Reuter started the other way, breeding for hygienic bees by using the frozen NO2 test because of the strong correllation of hygienic behavior with bees that remain free of AFB. Yet they make no claim that MH queens are varroa resistant. What percentage of your breeders were that hygienic - if you don't mind sharing.
    So, in addition to your bees having hygienic capabilities I suspect they have other positive attributes that make them varroa resistant.

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