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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    Reno, NV
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    3,060

    Default Re: Do many of these threads belong in the beginner area?

    Maybe you are right. a group that has a forum for 101 questions really should be separated from the one that is for none 101 questions. What makes more since to me is that the 101 should be more of a book rather than an interactive forum. I say this because most beginner questions have long ago been answered on these forums. It is a matter of finding them. There is of course a search function to aid in that. So lets discuss that feature and why it may not be used to answer such repetitious questions. I will speak for myself. I don't use the search function because it quite frankly is a complete waste of time. The result of nearly any search is a ridiculously long list of nearly completely irrelevant posts. It would be faster to find the information I seek by attempting to read each and every post on these forums one at a time. Also not realistic. It is by far easier and also completely realistic to simply ask the same question that has been answered before again.

    If on the other hand this information was in one location in an order that made some sort of since. one that made it reasonably possible to locate answers to specific questions. I believe it would be used to a large degree. This means consolidating all the information on this group to one book sized thread. Complete with an index that links to specific topic. such things are often mentioned in forums but simply are not ever carried out. Who will organize and make it int eh first place? once it is made who will maintain it? Who will choose what content it contains and what it will not. or will it contain every single idea or thought shared on a subject. what qualifies as a significantly different idea? Saying the same thing in a different way is not a new idea.

    In all the solution is both very simple and yet most likely impossible. make that new person info findable and they questions will stop being asked over and over.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Camas, WA
    Posts
    1,957

    Default Re: Do many of these threads belong in the beginner area?

    I think that people are taking this thread a little too seriously (personally?). For me, it's nice to have the type of questions set up in different categories. For as long as I've been here there have been the Bee Forum and 101. Others, Commercial, Treatment Free, For Sale, etc have been added later. I'm pretty sure I've started threads in 101 and I had been beekeeping for 10-15 years before I started reading Beesource. I don't think how much experience that you have dictates where you post (for the most part), but the type of question.

    I suppose if there is a stigma attached to posting in 101 we could ask Barry to delete it, but that really seems kind of silly. I doubt that many experienced beekeepers that use Beesource avoid 101. I know that I don't. It's the first or second area that I look at most of the time.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Brookshire, Texas
    Posts
    112

    Default Re: Do many of these threads belong in the beginner area?

    In the future I will attempt to clarify my questions with more precise "Titles" so that those that are not interested can skip my question and go on to more important matters. I realize some question titles are really vague and one has to open up the string to see what the real question might actually be. Titles such as "I Really Need Help" or "Guess What Just Happened" don't give a clue to what is inside. More precise title lines might help out those who are more learned and do not want to deal with newbee questions.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    havana fl
    Posts
    1,358

    Default Re: Do many of these threads belong in the beginner area?

    Quote Originally Posted by taxonomy View Post
    I really love beesource, and use its archives quite a bit. I often find this Bee Forum to have a lot of really basic threads esp. from 1st year beekeepers. Is there any sort of guidance about Beekeeping 101. For people asking more advance kinds of questions it sort of muddies up the water. It would be nice if there was something between this, which is pretty basic most of the time and Bee-L.
    Have ya tried google???
    Im really not that serious

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,506

    Default Re: Do many of these threads belong in the beginner area?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    If on the other hand this information was in one location in an order that made some sort of since. one that made it reasonably possible to locate answers to specific questions.
    This is already in the works. I'm redesigning the static part of Beesource more in line with this thought. Until then, if you're volunteering to organize the forum posts, drop me a line.
    Regards, Barry

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Santa Fe, NM, USA
    Posts
    119

    Default Re: Do many of these threads belong in the beginner area?

    I totally agree with cerezha and beekeeperlady and most others...questions get new answers over time and discussion promotes deeper thinking by the "collective mind". If you aren't interested in a post, don't click on it.

    Ledge...very funny

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Citrus County, Florida, United States
    Posts
    260

    Default Re: Do many of these threads belong in the beginner area?

    Thus the reason lurking Internet forums has become the norm rather than participation. Basically every hobby forum has it's "regulars" that dominate and enforce their pecking order. I'm new here as far as participation goes, but not reading. I simply hate it when the boards become "newbie" v. "veteran" (veteran as far as participation goes, not hands-on experience). I've seen too many people with years of hobby/interest experience simply refuse to participate due to the fact they are DOING their hobby and not the forums. I see a lot of mods on these boards and I simply assumed they did their job well of moderating? I will defer to their knowledge and experience in moderating the boards. I suppose if everyone used the search and since the site has bee running long enough, in theory, all questions could be answered and satisfied with no REAL need for forum participation...but I thought this was an Internet "community".

    I'll try not to let my past experiences with Internet forums of other pursuits interfere with my Beesource user experience, but threads started like this kinda get me going, almost as much as posting "use the search" to every newbie's question from the "regulars".

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    3,060

    Default Re: Do many of these threads belong in the beginner area?

    Barry, I actually live with a powerful peeve of those who live with there lips moving more freely than there feet. I also have a fundamental belief that those with an idea are probably the best choice to carry it out. They have the vision it is probably them that should do the steering. I will send a PM on this issue and look forward to seeing what you have in the works. I have actually seen forums organized in the past so I know it can be done. By one person with a forum of this scale? not likely. Not impossible though just obsticals to overcome.
    Last edited by Daniel Y; 06-16-2012 at 11:58 AM.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Guilford, CT
    Posts
    72

    Default Re: Do many of these threads belong in the beginner area?

    Please see the thread "why bee keepers fail"

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    VENTURA, California, USA
    Posts
    3,604

    Default Re: Do many of these threads belong in the beginner area?

    Bump.
    I have some thoughts on this topic.
    But, at this point I choose to remain neutral.
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,506

    Default Re: Do many of these threads belong in the beginner area?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    I have actually seen forums organized in the past so I know it can be done. By one person with a forum of this scale? not likely. Not impossible though just obsticals to overcome.
    Yes, it really boils down to manpower and time. As the forum has grown, so has the time required just to keep it running. My time has shifted from being actively involved in discussions to mostly doing all administrative work. It also requires more and more time that either cuts into private/family time or work time, so a source of compensation was required. I have all kinds of ideas to improve the forum, but I can't afford to spend 8 hours a day implementing them.

    The forum is for discussion, not simply a list of answers to questions. I'm not overly concerned with posts being in the "right" forum when it comes to 101 or the main forum. It would be very hard to try and keep these two forums "pure." As always, I appreciate feedback and it doesn't hurt to strive for perfection.
    Regards, Barry

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Novato, CA
    Posts
    554

    Default Re: Do many of these threads belong in the beginner area?

    there is the beekeeping 101 and beekeeping headers. I'm a newbie but not shiny new so use beekeeping header unless I'm specifically talking about swarms, queens etc. I personally do not see an issue....

  13. #33
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Knoxville, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    90

    Default Re: Do many of these threads belong in the beginner area?

    Looks like there are only 4 users that have three years experience in this thread, so I guess this should be in the "101" folder.
    I am new and just prefer to read. I know others have already asked the questions that I have.
    At this point, I will read anything.
    Carry on.
    Greg Barnett
    7a

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Appling, Georgia, USA
    Posts
    216

    Default Re: Do many of these threads belong in the beginner area?

    but I feel with 36 hives in my sixth year
    I'd like to see this be for keepers three years plus. Anyone can read it but the request would be for people with some time under their belt and some experience.
    I am sure the newbies would have more than enough people to provide basic answers for their simple questions if those are not already in an archive.[/QUOTE]

    So what you are saying is that with 36 hives and 6 whole years experience, you should be given some sort of preferential (or special) treatment in being able to ask a question on a FORUM? Also, who's to say that 3 years should be the cut off point for being able to speak in your forum?
    I'm sure that some of the 20 and 30 year beekeepers on this forum would probably see a question about preventing mouse damage as quite the newbie question as well.
    But it seems that those with that experience "slog" thru the threads helping where they can (and want), and pass on by the others.
    Seems the best place for some 6 year "experts" would be in the entomology doctorate program at some of the various universities around the world and not wasting their time here at a newbie filled forum where we are all trying to learn.
    Good luck
    Last edited by Beezly; 06-16-2012 at 01:59 PM. Reason: Naturaledge already said it.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,113

    Default Re: Do many of these threads belong in the beginner area?

    To be fair, there is a whole lot of reading that is not being done. Beesource has been around for well over a decade, and it will be two before long. Virtually every question asked in any given week have been asked (or some variation) dozens of times before. I get fatigued answering some of those old questions so I specifically look for threads that have no replies. And I focus on questions that are more in line with my own treatment-free method of beekeeping.

    I know I'm in the minority as a proponent for a heavier hand in moderation, but as volunteers, moderators just don't have the time to keep track of everything. I have enough of a time on TFB where there are a few dozen posts a day, while there are hundreds in the Bee Forum. No one person can keep track of that.

    Michael Bush has a good method, he has his own website where he has cataloged many questions and answers so he can simply link them. Maybe the best solution to repeat question is a barrage of links to the question answered. It's an idea.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,442

    Default Re: Do many of these threads belong in the beginner area?

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    To be fair, there is a whole lot of reading that is not being done. Beesource has been around for well over a decade, and it will be two before long. Virtually every question asked in any given week have been asked (or some variation) dozens of times before. I get fatigued answering some of those old questions so I specifically look for threads that have no replies. And I focus on questions that are more in line with my own treatment-free method of beekeeping
    I understand what you are saying Sol, I often find myself torn between re-answering a remedial question or just ignoring it. I really prefer to take a step back and let someone with slightly more experience than the questioner because I think they may be able to "speak the same language" easier so to speak. But I think those who impatiently plead with folks to use the search function fail to understand that as much as anything some of these folks just want interaction with someone with more experience than themselves. Its the difference between reading it in a book and actually being tutored by someone who cares about helping you out.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,571

    Default Re: Do many of these threads belong in the beginner area?

    Everything is always exactly where it aught to be. It is we who are in the wrong place or head space.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Appling, Georgia, USA
    Posts
    216

    Default Re: Do many of these threads belong in the beginner area?

    Extremely well put Solomon, Jim and Mark!

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,113

    Default Re: Do many of these threads belong in the beginner area?

    I never turn anyone down who wants to visit. The invitation is open.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    2,728

    Default Re: Do many of these threads belong in the beginner area?

    OK , Crazy idea here(what else did you expect?), if we take Lazy Shooter's categories, and use them not screen them from forums(all would be open to all), but use them as a way to provide insight to the reader of a reply, as to the potential knowledge, skill and experience level of a poster. It would provide a better understanding of the context of the post by illuminating the posters conditions and perspective.

    For an extreme example, if a first year hobbiest replied in a commercial forum, I would recognize that as their honest opnion, and viewpoint, but not see it as much value to my self. In the converse situation, with a commercial beekeeper posting in a 101 forum, the beginner can realize that the information may be accurate, but may not be something of value because they do not have the same end goals.

    Crazy Roland

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