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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ballard County, KY
    Posts
    348

    Default 48 Hour Queen Cells

    I have read a couple of articles recently about using 48 hour started cells to distribute gene pool material from a good queen or breeder queen to the masses. I'm not sure I understand the advantages of this other than the superior genetics. Are their other advantages (ie ease of transport, better percent acceptance)?? Would not sealed queen cells work better? I must be missing something here. Anyone with ideas on this please share. Thanks

    Tim

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Peace River, AB Canada
    Posts
    456

    Default Re: 48 Hour Queen Cells

    Not sure I understand.
    Are the 48 hour cells being shipped, being used by the cell producer in nucs or used in production hives to simulate a supercedure?
    Can you provide links to the articles?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Hudson, WI USA
    Posts
    2,212

    Default Re: 48 Hour Queen Cells

    Tim, I read that they were not as vulnerable during transport, and the producer has put less work in them so they should be cheaper. I don't recall seeing them offered for sale.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,652

    Default Re: 48 Hour Queen Cells

    My understanding is that the 48 hour q-cells are less vulnerable to being harmed at that age. I believe that Dr. John Kefuss in Toulouse Fr was one of the first to ship 48 hour cells. There have been a few articles covering his work/breeding in recent years.
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ballard County, KY
    Posts
    348

    Default Re: 48 Hour Queen Cells

    Bee Culture had an article in the June issue from Dr. Larry Conner discussing it breifly.

    I also saw this on the Michigan Beekeeping site. These are the new way to get bee stock into your hive from breeder queens. You carry the cells home in a styrofoam cup and install them into a queenless nuc you have made up. The colony completes the construction of the cell.

    Tim

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    greer south carolina USA
    Posts
    156

    Default Re: 48 Hour Queen Cells

    to be clear on this are these open queen cells 48 hours from the time they are laid as eggs?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Homestead,Iowa,USA
    Posts
    32

    Default Re: 48 Hour Queen Cells

    In June 2011, I took Dr. Conner's Queen Rearing class and the resulting cells were sent home with us in styrofoam cups, it worked out quite well, I still have both Queens, and have grafted off of them.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Hawke's Bay, New Zealand
    Posts
    190

    Default Re: 48 Hour Queen Cells

    Quote Originally Posted by seamuswildflower View Post
    to be clear on this are these open queen cells 48 hours from the time they are laid as eggs?
    No (takes three days for an egg to hatch), 48 hours from grafting probably.

    I have a friend who uses this. Many of the apiaries he has to get into are so rugged he hasn't got a chance of getting 9 day cells into intact, and you can't tell what condition the young queen is in inside the cell once you get there.

    He carries in two day cells in a nuc with nurse bees and loves it - he can see the larvae is well inside the cell before he puts it into the hive. Occassionally a larvae is jarred out of the cell by the rough tracks, , but he can see that and just chooses the next cell.

    Has great acceptance and success.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Stafford, Virginia
    Posts
    287

    Default Re: 48 Hour Queen Cells

    Dr. Conner teaches the 48 hour queen cell procedure in his workshop which my wife and I took in May. I did not have any luck with them nor do I use them in my operation. Dr. Conner put on a teriffic course that I highly recommend to anyone if he comes to your area.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,593

    Default Re: 48 Hour Queen Cells

    He's part of the Bee Wellness Workshops being put on here in NY this year. Along w/ Alphonse Avitable, Dianna Sommertero, and Ontario Provincia Apiarist Retired Doug McRory.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Winhall, VT
    Posts
    1,066

    Default Re: 48 Hour Queen Cells

    Don't they mean 48 hours after they are capped? I can't imagine shipping uncapped queen cells but I have been wrong before! Just ask my girlfriend!
    Raising Vermont Bees one mistake at a time.
    USDA Zone 5A

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,448

    Default Re: 48 Hour Queen Cells

    I can't say I fully understand the advantages of a 2 day old cell over using ripe queen cells. I have two concerns, one is the incubation temps and handling while transporting immature larvae. Perhaps these styrofoam cups contain bees and a method to keep the very soft wax from being crushed? My other main concern is that there is always some attrition as the cells mature I would estimate an average of 5 to 10 % with an occasional instance of even more serious problems. You can have nearly 100% confidence in the health of a 10 day old ripe cell once you learn how to recognize abnormalities.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Findlay, Ohio
    Posts
    524

    Default Re: 48 Hour Queen Cells

    Nick Hubbell
    www.findlaybee.com

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,448

    Default Re: 48 Hour Queen Cells

    OK I can accept that. They are just making it easier for researchers to transfer their genetics by moving the "heavy lifting" of queen cell production away from the researchers to the beekeeper. Any additional losses due to handling would just be part of the cost of doing business so to speak.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Homestead,Iowa,USA
    Posts
    32

    Default Re: 48 Hour Queen Cells

    I, in my humble opinion, think the 48 hr cell would work out great. They should have a good aceptance rate in a small nuc. I am going to try it before the end of the mating season here. , what's a guy got to lose? Paul

  16. #16

    Default Re: 48 Hour Queen Cells

    48 hour queen cells are cells that were grafted 48 hours ago. I transport mine when going to other yards in a piece of styrofoam with holes drilled in it for the cups to sit in and chuncks of styofoam are the same size as a small bucket where multiple layers of foam and queen cells can be stacked in. Another advantage to using 48 hour queen cells is spreading out the work of the cell builder. When planting 48 hour cells in a 5 frame nuc that nuc only has to feed that one queen cell. I see bigger cells doing this with lots of surplus royal jelly. I don't always plant 48 hour cells but when I'm in a pinch for more queen cells in the queenless mating nucs I will and it works out really well.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,593

    Default Re: 48 Hour Queen Cells

    Quote Originally Posted by pine_ridge_farms View Post
    I don't always plant 48 hour cells but when I'm in a pinch for more queen cells in the queenless mating nucs I will and it works out really well.
    "I don't always plant 48 hour cells, but when" I do, I drink Dos Equis. Sorry, couldn't help my self. I watch too much TV.
    Last edited by sqkcrk; 08-12-2012 at 12:38 PM. Reason: added a "k" to drin
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  18. #18

    Default Re: 48 Hour Queen Cells

    That's a good one Mark!

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Casper, Wy, USA
    Posts
    804

    Default Re: 48 Hour Queen Cells

    Hi Guys

    I've experimented with unsealed queen cells and found them to be much more robust than sealed queen cells. Once harvested they:

    - didn't require any temperature control.
    - were practically immune to transportation shock.
    - needed no attendants.
    - were readily accepted.

    I suspect they could successfully and easily be shipped almost anywhere.

    You can read more about my tests at:

    http://beenaturalguy.com/legacy-quee...day-old-cells/

    One test not mention consisted of letting 24 hour old queen cells set unattended, in a cool place, for two days. The bees readily accepted these cells and raised normal, healthy queens from them. That's how robust they are.

    Regards - Dennis
    I once wrangled bees. But now, knowing better, I just let them bee.
    http://talkingstick.me/category/bees/

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,448

    Default Re: 48 Hour Queen Cells

    Thats some really interesting info Dennis. How long were the two day cells left unattended by bees and at what temps? I do continue to have some concerns about transferring what I consider to be the problem of normal attrition in the cell maturation process into a nuc. It isnt unusual for us to see 5 to 10% of our cells that appear healthy at the 48 hour stage but by day 10 have been either chewed out by the bees or are showing signs of being unhealthy.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

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