Oil type for beetle tray?

**GAdrone** · 06-10-2012, 08:40 PM

Currently I am using a small hive beetle trap with a tray that I've been filling with vegetable oil. It has been working pretty well, but I'm looking to reduce cost as I am replacing vegetable oil in 4 hives every two weeks which is an expense I would like to reduce. I have a friend who has "sludge" oil from making bio diesel. This sludge oil is the oil that is left over after he has processed his biodiesel. The oil is basically old vegetable oil that he was given from commercial fryers. Is this a safe alternative to buying and using new vegetable oil? Has anyone done this before? Or what are ya'll using? Just looking for a cheaper method.

Thank you very much,

GAdrone

**Solomon Parker** · 06-11-2012, 06:04 AM

Sludge oil from biodiesel is actually not oil, it's actually an alcohol, glycyl alcohol or better known as glycerin. There is some veggie oil in it, but there is also methanol which will off-gas. I'm not sure of the effects in a hive, but it is poisonous for us. You can allow it to evaporate before you use it or depending on how the biodiesel was made, it might be ethanol instead of methanol. I don't have any idea on if it would work or not. I know for a fact from my research that it will quickly kill things on contact. But that's due to its hygroscopic nature not because it's poisonous.

**GAdrone** · 06-11-2012, 07:56 AM

Solomon,

Thank you for your response. By sludge i wasn't reffering to processed veggie oil, but rather the oil that is filtered prior to the adding of chemicals. This bio diesel is homemade, and basically old cooking oil that has been used. Basically the same oil from a french fryer that has been filtered. This oil has the burnt remains of food that is why I reffered to it as "sludge"? Is this okay to use?

Thanks

**Solomon Parker** · 06-11-2012, 09:09 AM

I don't know if sludge would be the right term to use. Sludge is usually the byproduct of a process. Filtration is more of an operation rather than a process, I know this may be a little confusing, but I'll skip over the details. You could call it sludge, but it's not the definition I'm accustomed to as a water/wastewater engineer.

So what you're talking about is the gunk filtered out of the vegetable oil before it gets converted into biodiesel?

**GAdrone** · 06-11-2012, 10:18 AM

I apologize for the misunderstanding. Gunk is probably a better term for it, and yes the gunk thats left over after the veggie oil has been filtered.

**Solomon Parker** · 06-11-2012, 12:40 PM

I don't foresee a problem, try it and see. Though I do know about biodiesel, glycerin, and vegetable oil, I don't use beetle traps.

**GAdrone** · 06-11-2012, 07:30 PM

Solomon,

I guess I'll just try it for a week, and see what the results are. I won't need to change my oil out in my traps for another week and a half, but when I do I'll give an update on here. Just out of curiosity, if you don't use beetle traps, what do you use?

GAdrone

**beecrazy101** · 06-12-2012, 12:27 AM

wouldn't that fall under the treatment such as crisco ect. for it is something that used for frying. It my be vegetable oil in a sence, but what else is incorporated in the light shortening? I am just saying this because organic essentail oils are considered treatments. Or is it just because it is more for the SHB. I know you can use a certain acid in a political board and put crisco in it to keep it from falling out, and the bees round up the SHB in the board which causes their dismis. What is that, treatment or management?

**Solomon Parker** · 06-12-2012, 06:47 AM

First of all, I don't use beetle traps, so I'm not trying to push my treatment as defined as not a treatment (like so many have done in this forum in the past.) I don't use anything. I'm a treatment free purist.

That being said, I believe we can make a definitive statement between treatments and non-treatments at the interface of the bee. Sounds weird, yes. Treatments are in contact with the bees, for them to eat, get coated in, systemic chemicals, etc. The substance contained in a beetle trap (like a sticky board to catch varroa) is not meant to touch the bees. It's not to help the bees combat a pest, it combats the pest without the bees being involved at all.

I'm of the view that no treatment or manipulation should be necessary, that the bees should be allowed to combat the problem themselves or perish. But this forum (and the users thereof (though many who had input on the definition have since moved on)) has defined treatments as noted in the Unique Forum Rules which also say that discussing what is a treatment or not is off topic in a thread not specifically named as such. So I'm just answering a question here, let's keep it on topic.

**beecrazy101** · 06-12-2012, 08:54 AM

I am staying on topic, just want to get the justification of one or the other.

**beecrazy101** · 06-12-2012, 09:12 AM

so I am going to take a political board and put I think its boric acid in it. You use crisco on both sides to keep the acid in the board. The bees round up the beetles in the board and the acid sends them to their dismis. I have not used anything on my bees either, seems they are very strong and very few hive beetles and even stopped feeding two of my three hives. But when I just ask a question on one thing dont make me feel like because of that ? that my post will be deleted. Thanks for this forum. I am glad its here for us naturalist. Just answer the questions someone has without saying they may be deleted.