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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    Winhall, VT
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    Default Anybody using ship lap joint on their boxes?

    Searched the forum but found nothing. Wondering if instead of just rabet joint is it worth it to dado both boards and ship lap the corners. Is a ship lap that much stronger?

    I glue and staple rabbets right now and they seem fine.
    Raising Vermont Bees one mistake at a time.
    USDA Zone 5A

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Stevenson, Washington, USA
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    181

    Default Re: Anybody using ship lap joint on their boxes?

    Are you talking about a tongue and groove type joint? If so, I would think it would resist warping more than a rabbet. Like you said - wether its needed or not is the question! I tend to lean towards making the extra two dado cuts, just in case...

    My only concern would be that the board with the groove cut perpendicular to the grain might be prone to tear out or chipping - but with good gluing and sealing, you'd probably be ok.

    Andrew

  3. #3
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    Nov 2011
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    Default Re: Anybody using ship lap joint on their boxes?

    I am no pro woodworker but to me a rabet is where you dado only one board (short end of super) and a ship lap is when you dado both the short and the long ends.

    This guy does it . . .

    Raising Vermont Bees one mistake at a time.
    USDA Zone 5A

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Evansville, IN
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    Default Re: Anybody using ship lap joint on their boxes?

    Ship lap is longitudinal along the grain, rabbets can be either way (i.e. shiplap is a type of rabbet joint).

    You can do a rabbet for the box ends either by cutting one dado or two -- the latter is probably stronger, but a bit tricker to make. Locking miter joints are better, but more difficult to cut.

    Peter

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    Default Re: Anybody using ship lap joint on their boxes?

    Thanks for that Peter. Now I know!
    Raising Vermont Bees one mistake at a time.
    USDA Zone 5A

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bloomington, IN
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    26

    Default Re: Anybody using ship lap joint on their boxes?

    I started out making box joints. After that batch, I did ship lap rabbet joints. To me it was super easy after the hassle of box joints. I have double deep hives that have one box joined super and one ship lap super and the bees can't tell the difference.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Perry, Florida, USA
    Posts
    226

    Default Re: Anybody using ship lap joint on their boxes?

    If ship lap is what it is called then all my boxes are ship lap. I cut a rabbet on both pieces. It more or less squares itself and once you nail it both ways it cant come apart without tearing something up. Exposes much less end grain also.(I checked it) It is also about four times as fast as making box joints.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Rowan County NC
    Posts
    341

    Default Re: Anybody using ship lap joint on their boxes?

    I made a really nice box joint jig where I could cut 6 boards at a time. It was still more time consuming than the shiplap...It is what I use now
    "You have to put down the ducky if you wanna play the Saxophone!" Mr .Hoot

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    Winhall, VT
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    Default Re: Anybody using ship lap joint on their boxes?

    Well, I just cut all the pieces for 10 double nucs that I will use as mating nucs and then overwintering nucs. Used the double rabet cut. Looks okay. Now to build a gluing and stapling jig in the morning.

    I did try a new way to save a lot of labor on the bottom boards. Will post photos or video soon.
    Raising Vermont Bees one mistake at a time.
    USDA Zone 5A

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
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    5,029

    Default Re: Anybody using ship lap joint on their boxes?

    What you describe is something I myself have used, on occasion, but I understand that "ship lap" is what is often used in siding. Where ship lap joints look like how wooden siding was formed and applied in earlier times. As psfred said, ship lap is cut with the grain, rather than across the grain.

    I don't believe that the joint formed, as illustrated below is actually a ship lap joint, since it is the edges of both boards that are involved and that they are at right angles to each other.




    Last edited by Joseph Clemens; 06-07-2012 at 08:35 PM.
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Green,Wisconsin,USA
    Posts
    107

    Default Re: Anybody using ship lap joint on their boxes?

    I use half blind dovetail joints. That's mostly because I have the jig and love to use a router. That aside, if you're a hobbiest and not moving hives cross country on a regular basis, than how you build a box doesn't really matter. You're probably not going to jar or bounce a joint apart. If you're moving hives a lot however, than a locking joint is probably more important.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Marshall county, AL
    Posts
    476

    Default Re: Anybody using ship lap joint on their boxes?

    I found this thread using the search function.

    How many of you use the shiplap joints? I think this would be stronger than box joints and I know it would be quicker than box joints. My question though is how do you cut the rabbit for the frames to sit on without extending it over into the joint? I don't think that would hurt anything but it wouldn't look as good. I know the bees wouldn't care how it looked, but this beek would.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    bridgewater , nova scotia
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    639

    Default Re: Anybody using ship lap joint on their boxes?

    Brad Bee

    Do you mean the frame rest ? It is 3/8 x 5/8 and it won't stick out or make a gap in your box at all. If you are making boxes using 3/4 wood , The end pieces are the only ones getting any real work done to them.
    10 frame deep box Lang using 3/4 lumber . 19 1/8 L 9 5/8 H SIDE
    Ends 16 1/4 L X 9 5/8 H Dado the joints with a 3/4 dado and set the blade height to 3/8 deep. For frame rests use the same Depth and set it to 5/8 width. Hence no empty spaces/gaps in your boxes.

    After i figured out this way of doing my boxes , i can make them SO much faster and easier than finger joints : ) And with the proper glue , they are nice and strong !
    Good Luck
    Ben Little <The Little Bee Farm> https://www.facebook.com/TheLittleBeeFarm
    Nova Scotia Canada

  14. #14
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    Apr 2013
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    Marshall county, AL
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    476

    Default Re: Anybody using ship lap joint on their boxes?

    Yes, the frame rest. Got any pictures showing the view looking down from the top of one? I may make a few before church tonight but I can't picture why there wont be a 3/8" x 5/8" gap between the front and the side on the inside corners of the box. The outside will look fine I know, but won't there be a gap in each corner? I know it won't hurt anything, but it will be there, won't it?


    Now if I dado the fronts but not the sides and completely lap the side board with the front board then there won't be any gap left by the frame rest. That may be how you are doing yours but that's not a true shiplap joint. That will likely be what I do, unless I can convince myself that there won't be a gap when using a shiplap joint.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: Anybody using ship lap joint on their boxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Little View Post
    Brad Bee - Do you mean the frame rest ? It is 3/8 x 5/8 and it won't stick out or make a gap in your box at all. If you are making boxes using 3/4 wood , The end pieces are the only ones getting any real work done to them.
    Ben, take a look at the graphic in Joseph Clemens post #10. In this style of corner joint, both mating pieces are machined.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    bridgewater , nova scotia
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    639

    Default Re: Anybody using ship lap joint on their boxes?

    Yes i saw the graphic.

    And yes I just lap the whole side board into the front and back of the box. Less work for me. I still cross staple my boxes for added strength , with lots of glue : )
    If you use 7/8 lumber, which is what i normally use , but didn't have enough dry lumber at the time , you need to change your width of the front and back pieces to 16 5/8 and then dado it @ 7/8 for the thicker lumber. It keeps the inside dimensions the same that way.
    Or just buy boxes , I find it more enjoyable to build my own things and the outcome is almost the same as buying it , just a lot cheaper LOL.

    If you still want a picture , Go on my facebook page below this and scroll down to the Aussie Bee package album and you will see some pictures of the 5 frame nucs i made with the same cutting i use for my 10 frames.

    Have a good day: )
    P.S. I had to figure out most of this stuff on my own , I am not perfect and my ways of building things aren't either , i just do it the best way i can. It works for me and the Bees seem to like it too.


    Ben
    Ben Little <The Little Bee Farm> https://www.facebook.com/TheLittleBeeFarm
    Nova Scotia Canada

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Marshall county, AL
    Posts
    476

    Default Re: Anybody using ship lap joint on their boxes?

    Definitely nothing wrong with the way you are building the boxes and I will likely build them the same way if I can't figure out a way to shiplap without that gap in the corner. I just placed an order for 30 1"x8"x10' Poplar boards at a local sawmill so I will be getting plenty of practice.

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