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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    East Peoria, IL
    Posts
    398

    Default Cleo Hogan trapout from a tree

    The Water Department in Creve Coeur, IL found this bee tree when removing some brush to fix a broken water main. In doing so they opened the direct flight bath for the bees across a school ground and ball field. Lots of people walk down that path too so they wanted the bees out to negate their liability. I was going to do a cone trap-out but ran across the Cleo Hogan method and decided to give that a try, this is my first trap-out.

    The tree as I found it. Lots of activity with multiple entrances.


    After prepping the tree and closing up all the entrances but one main one. I left the tree in this condition for a week to get the bees used to only having one entrance. I ended up filling the cavity at the base of the tree with cement after the bees tunneled out through it.


    The female adapter fixed and sealed up on the tree. Lots of scrap lumber and silicone caulk to get everything to seal. Left it this way for 2 days before putting the box in place.


    Side view of the set-up.


    Bees using the tunnel after a day.


    Closed the tunnel leaving just the mesh cone as an escape from the tree.


    After 10 or so hours. Looks like it's working. I observed for a while last night and didn't see any bees able to get back through the cone into the tree but there is still a pretty steady flow of bees coming out. I have seen bees haul dead drones out so they shouldn't be getting too backed up with junk on the inside.
    Last edited by DLMKA; 06-07-2012 at 08:53 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Novato, CA
    Posts
    554

    Default Re: Cleo Hogan trapout from a tree

    Wow, lots of work! It looks like you did a great job with it too! Will you try to requeen them and keep them? Will you be closing up the entrance completely at the end? How long will you keep the trap there? What is all over the top of the 2nd frame from the right? (the white stuff)?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    East Peoria, IL
    Posts
    398

    Default Re: Cleo Hogan trapout from a tree

    Quote Originally Posted by CaBees View Post
    Wow, lots of work! It looks like you did a great job with it too! Will you try to requeen them and keep them? Will you be closing up the entrance completely at the end? How long will you keep the trap there? What is all over the top of the 2nd frame from the right? (the white stuff)?
    The second frame is a plastic frame from another hive that had eggs and day old larvae. According to Cleo Hogan that is supposed to draw the queen from the tree to investigate who's been laying eggs in her hive. If I get the queen no need to requeen, I actually would really like the genetics from this colony. They're really calm and easy to work with.

    The city is planning on cutting the tree down after I'm done. They couldn't do it with bees in it because the cavity in the tree goes to or possibly below ground level. Should take 5-6 weeks to get all the bees from the tree.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Novato, CA
    Posts
    554

    Default Re: Cleo Hogan trapout from a tree

    Have you done this before? I know brood is suppose to draw the queen but also read there is very little chance of it actually working. I hope you get her and look forward to your updates.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    East Peoria, IL
    Posts
    398

    Default Re: Cleo Hogan trapout from a tree

    even if I don't get her the workers in the hive body will make a ton of honey while they're waiting. I have a weak hive that can use an infusion of workers and I'll probably start a 5-frame nuc off the rest.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
    Posts
    1,693

    Default Re: Cleo Hogan trapout from a tree

    Hey DLMKA, keep us updated! This is interesting, and you've done an excellent job.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
    Posts
    1,693

    Default Re: Cleo Hogan trapout from a tree

    Hey DLMKA, keep us updated! This is interesting and you have done and excellent job.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    DFW area, TX, USA
    Posts
    1,014

    Default Re: Cleo Hogan trapout from a tree

    Subscribed. You are making it look easy!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Lee County, Florida, USA
    Posts
    63

    Default Re: Cleo Hogan trapout from a tree

    Fascinating! Please do keep us updated.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    East Peoria, IL
    Posts
    398

    Default Re: Cleo Hogan trapout from a tree

    Thanks all. I am getting paid by the city for this one, so I felt it best to try to not cobble too much stuff together from scrap wood.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEC41pJScHQ&sns=fb

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,742

    Default Re: Cleo Hogan trapout from a tree

    The only thing I would have done differently, is not install the funnel for a couple days after the introduction of the unsealed brood. I don't think I have ever had a queen come into the box after the funnel has been activated.

    I leave the end of the tunnel open until I either get the queen, or get enough bees to take and make a new colony. Then trap again to get her.

    CaBees...There is a really good chance of getting her from a tree. Once they start using it for a brood chamber she will come into the trap and lay eggs just like she will go up in a regular hive. She is just going horizontal, rather than verticle. The trap is an integral, sealed part of her home.

    Best trapping is early Spring when the queen is looking for any available brood comb to lay in. As she starts shutting down for Summer and Fall it becomes more difficult to get her to come out to use the brood box in the trap. I have received lots of e-mails from Beesource members who have been successful in getting the queen this year.

    Good luck to you,

    cchoganjr

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    East Peoria, IL
    Posts
    398

    Default Re: Cleo Hogan trapout from a tree

    My first concern is getting the bees out of the tree, that's what the city is paying for. Getting the queen and her genetics would be icing on the cake. Would it be too late to open up the tunnel again and place another open brood frame to attract the queen out? Since she isn't leaving her pheromones on the external hive body would those bees raise a new queen if they were given another frame of eggs? I would imagine the majority are starting realize they're queenless or would the trickle of bees still coming from the tree kill any new queen?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,742

    Default Re: Cleo Hogan trapout from a tree

    No, never too late. Remove your first start, depending on the age of your unsealed brood when you put it in the trap, and how long it has been in the trap before you moved it, it is possible for them to make a queen from that frame. If it is past 6 days the unsealed brood would be capped, and they could not make a queen from it, so an additional frame would be required.

    The bees in the trap, have on more than one occasion, raised a queen from the unsealed brood I gave them. See above, everything has to happen in six days or less because more than that and they will cap the brood. Then there is no viable egg to make a queen from.

    The trickle from the tree would, by this time, most likely be your nurse bees. Field bees would have been caught first. Nurse bees will not normally fight with other bees, and other bees will not normally attack nurse bees. So it is unlikely that they would harm the queen in the trap.

    Hope this helps.

    cchoganjr

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Novato, CA
    Posts
    554

    Default Re: Cleo Hogan trapout from a tree

    What is the clear sealer you are using around the funnel and on the tree?

    I really like how you used wire for the funnel, my screening is too flimsy.

    I just can't get to my current trap to put in brood, it is secured fromthe top so I can't remove the top and switch out frames. But I may try this with one of their 'bee tree's that they really don't want bees in anymore.

    I have to check my weak hive which was combined swarms and see if they were able to raise a queen before I remove my trap and combine what I have.... it won't be 33 days until 6/16 so not this weekend....

    Please keep your pictures / progress coming!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    East Peoria, IL
    Posts
    398

    Default Re: Cleo Hogan trapout from a tree

    I used silicone caulk, it's not the cheapest stuff in the world but the bees can't chew through it. I just used the same #8 hardware cloth as I use for SBB for the funnel. I hope to use this box many times so I just tried to do it right the first time. I plan on updating with more pictures as it progresses but I can't visibly see an increase in the number of bees in the hive body over the past 2 days. I am sure there ARE more, it's just harder to tell a difference. I've been trapping since Monday morning so I'm on day 4+. I'm just going to ignore them now for a few days. I have a few people that live in the area keeping an eye on things watching for vandalism, etc and they have my phone number if something is wrong.

    So far, the only downside I see to this method is that you can't watch the bees coming from the tree and observe without opening the top. I don't THINK they've figured out how to get back in but I don't KNOW and can't really watch for too long without them starting to get a little anxious about being exposed. I'll give them another frame of eggs next time I go and see if they'll raise a queen off it.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Sheboygan, WI, USA
    Posts
    128

    Default Re: Cleo Hogan trapout from a tree

    cool, I'll be keeping an eye on your progress!
    To find out more about me go to
    www.broomsbylittlejohn.com

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    East Peoria, IL
    Posts
    398

    Default Re: Cleo Hogan trapout from a tree

    Went to check on them yesterday and saw a small cluster of bees on the tree. Closer investigation revealed they had chewewd a hole just big enough for a single worker to get in/out. Sealed it back up with more silicone, hopefully that will be the end of it.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Roanoke, VA
    Posts
    1,438

    Default Re: Cleo Hogan trapout from a tree

    What about putting a small plexiglas window with a cover installed on the adapter that would allow you to peak in too see if there are still bees moving into the hive body? You wouldn't be able to see the cone, but you could use it to gauge the activity of the bees moving out. That or putting an observation window on the hive body that let you see the cone. Too late to do it now but after this job you could modify your setup.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Park City Ky
    Posts
    1,742

    Default Re: Cleo Hogan trapout from a tree

    It would be relatively easy to cut out a portion of one side piece and install a piece of plexiglass so you could view inside the trap any time you wanted to. I would fix it so it so it could be covered when not viewing. Bees don't like the light, and might spend a lot of time on the glass trying to get out through the glass. After a while, they would adjust, just like they eventually do in an observation hive.

    You could also put a plexiglass window in the transition, but would have to have the two transitions further apart so the window would not be where the two transitions overlap. Keep in mind to keep the trap as close to the feral brood nest as possible if you want to get the queen to come out into the trap.

    Again, if you are wanting to get the queen you would need to leave the screen cone off, and just let the bees come and go, thinking this is just another chamber of their hive. The brood you install will bring the queen into the trap to investigate, and then start laying in the trap. I don't think I have ever had a queen come through a screen cone, or the plastic conical bee escapes that I use in the traps. I only close off the tunnel, and activate the funnel, when i am ready to eliminate the colony, after getting the queen.

    Let us know how you do. Love the photos.

    cchoganjr

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Novato, CA
    Posts
    554

    Default Re: Cleo Hogan trapout from a tree

    I checked my trap out too (high in the oak tree) and same thing! They had gotten one single bee sized hole and were all in the tree. The good news is the homeowner is getting really interested in bees and willing to keep on trying. So I changed up the process but don't want to hi-jack this thread and will post it on my own. I love the window idea and when this is over will modify mine...

    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...reech-owl-tree

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