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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Grand Junction, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    231

    Default Re: What size hive boxes are those with bad backs using?

    Well folks I have a surgery date set now, July 9th. Going forward with horizontal Langstroth hives at hip height; for those of you who have helped me so far I may be writing you for more details. Thanks to all for the advice.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Modesto, California
    Posts
    64

    Default Re: What size hive boxes are those with bad backs using?

    When I work my bees, I set up 2 empty boxes right next to me....I start pulling the frames out 1 by 1 and putting them in the empty box at the top. The box at the bottom just keeps the frames off the ground while I load up the empty frames into the top.....but I do this one frame at a time. This 2-box method also keeps the filled frames at a higher level so I don't have to bend over!!!
    Then I am usually to my hive body....If I want to get into it, I do the same, take 2 emptybrood boxes, one on top of another next to me, move frame by frame.....To clean up the frame from extra drone cells, etc., you almost need to pull 1 by 1 anyway. Then, after all the frames are removed on a hive box.....you just have the empty box to deal with....not too heavy. I know a little time consuming, but sure does almost eliminate lifting anything heavy. Not much bending and not much lifting......Hope this helps.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,329

    Default Re: What size hive boxes are those with bad backs using?

    I run all eight frame mediums.

    http://www.bushfarms.com/beeseightframemedium.htm
    http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#uniformframesize

    I not only enjoy the lighter boxes, but all the same size frames and boxes...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  4. #64
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    2,682

    Default Re: What size hive boxes are those with bad backs using?

    Michael and others,

    Do you find brood management easier with mediums as opposed to deeps as well? I'm just thinking as far as uniformity of hatchouts and quality of brood etc... I've chosen to go with deeps for now as it's the same time for me to put deep frames together as mediums and I get more beespace out of the deeps. I may put on some medium supers for the bees to overwinter with and cap faster later in the season though. Matching all your boxes does make things a lot easier. Exquisite, I like your system. I try as well to set up where I'm going to put stuff before hand as well to keep it out of they way and to have it easily accessible to put the next box down. I also keep an empty box next to me to put a couple frames in as I'm moving through the boxes. Helps keep the bees out of the wind and sun and keeps them calm and I can shake the box back into the hive if any bees fall into it.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,329

    Default Re: What size hive boxes are those with bad backs using?

    >Do you find brood management easier with mediums as opposed to deeps as well?

    Most of my management is by the box rather than the frame. This is much easier.

    > I'm just thinking as far as uniformity of hatchouts and quality of brood etc... I've chosen to go with deeps for now as it's the same time for me to put deep frames together as mediums and I get more beespace out of the deeps. I may put on some medium supers for the bees to overwinter with and cap faster later in the season though.

    If you don't mind 90 pound boxes, deeps are fine...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    8,984

    Default Re: What size hive boxes are those with bad backs using?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    Most of my management is by the box rather than the frame.
    I like the sound of that.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,033

    Default Re: What size hive boxes are those with bad backs using?

    I could be wrong, but it seems to me that medium frames are more uniform in respect to brood than deeps. It seems that with mediums, all the brood is more or less the same age. On a typical deep frame, I commonly find eggs to capped.

    I was surely amazed when I saw how Michael manages by the box. Splits are amazingly fast.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Grand Junction, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    231

    Default Re: What size hive boxes are those with bad backs using?

    From what I've been told by my surgeon I won't be able to bend down for 6- 9 months and pick up any weight. That sealed my decision to go with horizontal langs. Michael Bush has been very helpful as well as others.

    I still have more questions but I plan to build 4 of these 4’ long, deeps with 3 – migratory tops on each. Planning on using ” plywood for bottom using rabbet joints on all corners, I’ll be using ” x 1” x 12” pine for sides cut to Lang deep dimensions.

    Tops I need more info on, I know the dimensions but I need to find out from Paul McCarty how he is attaching his insulation to his tops, sandwich method, Plywood - foam board - plywood if so smaller thickness on plywood? I will be using the tin method as well to cover tops like Paul uses.

    Another question where are entrances located, top, bottom, both, ends, sides? Screened bottom with removable cover, Yes or No?

    I live in a high mountain desert climate where we can have 50 F degree temperature swings with average 10 % humidity, yearly rainfall of 7 “ mostly in Winter as snow. Snow normally melts off in a day or two due to abundant sunshine and low humidity. Summers can reach 100’s and drop to 50’s by morning. Winters are normally 40’s to 10’s for about 3-4 months.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Otero County, New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    1,372

    Default Re: What size hive boxes are those with bad backs using?

    I usually sandwich the insulation between the plywood and a thin veneer so they don't propolize the insulation to the hive. If I don't have a veneer handy, I sometimes make the top deep enough to add a piece of trim as a runner for the same purpose, down each edge. It also works handily to secure the insulation to the top cover.

    My entrances are on the end and are usually just a 1 inch hole with a rotating disk entrance in place. They do need ventilation of some sort, so I drill some 2 3/4 inch holes on the bottom near the brood nest and screen them off (they work good for smoking them too). I usually add a few screened vents in the rear too, usually near the top to let out heat, etc.. These hives seem to work OK. I have had a few of them for several years now. I like the fact I can control how fast they build up by spacing or adding empty frames. Much more convenient and less disruptive than taking apart a stack of lang boxes.
    Last edited by Paul McCarty; 06-21-2012 at 09:24 AM.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Grand Junction, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    231

    Default Re: What size hive boxes are those with bad backs using?

    Well folks I'm on the mend and looking forward to getting back into bees. I have about another month to go and I should be able to start building equipment again. Hopefully those of you who offered help will still be around.

    Sticky Bear

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Issaquah,WA,USA
    Posts
    2,333

    Default Re: What size hive boxes are those with bad backs using?

    I have a bad back herniated disk fused. I use 10 frame on a 4 way pallet with a fork lift. I also keep a prescription of Diclofenac filled at all times and pop one before I go into the bee yard to remove supers and one after.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diclofenac

    I also have a truck with a boom but, If it is just a deep I just lift and grunt. Moving a whole hive I use the boom.

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,818

    Default Re: What size hive boxes are those with bad backs using?

    Sticky Bear, I wish you well. I have looked over and over the frame size issue. And from what I can tell bees don't like anything interrupting their brood nest. this seems to be fairly constant from one source of information to the next. It is also fairly consistent that even a deep frame is not deep enough to prevent any break in the brood. If I go back far enough, 100 years or a bit more. I find that at times considerable attention was given to this issue but no real answer was adopted.

    In the end the Lang became the hive of choice for standardization. Then I came across this little side comment. The lang deep fraems is the size it is because it fits well on tossed out apple crates that where common at that time. The dimension of the deep lang where determined by trash. Free wood.

    I do find it far more of a problem to lift a deep if it got filled with honey. and the break issue is no longer on my list of concerns for now. Very little of the hive I use now I consider has much to do with what works for the bees except maybe bee space and you can see varied opinion on that. I am moving toward med boxes because they work for me. I have not decided on 10 or 8 frame. In the end I am not sure there is a choice that is better for the bees.

    Top bar sounds like an answer for your immediate needs. I have one and it will probably be the only one I own. I don't really have a complaint about them as they are just not for me.
    Last edited by Daniel Y; 12-13-2012 at 02:43 PM.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    8,984

    Default Re: What size hive boxes are those with bad backs using?

    [QUOTE=EastSideBuzz;874931I also keep a prescription of Diclofenac filled at all times and pop one before I go into the bee yard to remove supers and one after. [/QUOTE]
    I have a bad back too but I stopped trying to prove a point and now don't lift anything heavy. Don't fight it StickBear just get 8 frame mediums and you can do all the bee keeping your hearts desire.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Grand Junction, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    231

    Default Re: What size hive boxes are those with bad backs using?

    I went out Sunday 2/18/2013 to add rock candy to all 6 hives and discovered 3 had died due to the extreme subzero temperatures we had for 6 weeks. The 3 that survived are booming and were robbing the 3 dead ones for honey and pollen. Removed the 3 hives that were dead, performed an inspection and discovered they died in a clump trying to keep warm. 1 hive had 60 lbs. of honey within, will process some for gifts and save the rest for splits in the spring. After working with these I'm committed to horizontal Lang hives, the pain lasted into the night. I'm going forward with horizontal lang 44 deep frames hives with a devider board so I can raise splits in both ends and use medium supers if needed for honey extraction.
    Last edited by Sticky Bear; 02-19-2013 at 08:48 AM.

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    brownwood, TX, USA
    Posts
    778

    Default Re: What size hive boxes are those with bad backs using?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sticky Bear View Post
    I went out Sunday 2/18/2013 to add rock candy to all 6 hives and discovered 3 had died due to the extreme subzero temperatures we had for 6 weeks. The 3 that survived are booming and were robbing the 3 dead ones for honey and pollen. Removed the 3 hives that were dead, performed an inspection and discovered they died in a clump trying to keep warm. 1 hive had 60 lbs. of honey within, will process some for gifts and save the rest for splits in the spring. After working with these I'm committed to horizontal Lang hives, the pain lasted into the night. I'm going forward with horizontal lang 44 deep frames hives with a devider board so I can raise splits in both ends and use medium supers if needed for honey extraction.
    Do you know of anyone that sells top bar Lang hives? Thanks in advance. Lazy

  16. #76
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Grand Junction, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    231

    Default Re: What size hive boxes are those with bad backs using?

    No, I do not. One has to build the equipment, but if you look through this thread you will see several good examples on how to it do your self. It's really no different from building langs except the length of the hive body is longer.
    Last edited by Sticky Bear; 02-20-2013 at 06:45 PM.

  17. #77
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Sacramento,California,USA
    Posts
    3,553

    Default Re: What size hive boxes are those with bad backs using?

    Changes for me this last year...
    I've gotten all my bees off of deeps and now run only mediums.
    I had a carpenter make me up some 5 frame mediums out of some plywood I had out in the barn, and I really like them! I don't have large flows here so 3 to 4 story 5 frame mediums are sounding good to me right now. I am now going to cut down all my 8 frame deeps to be 8 frame mediums for larger hives, when flows permit. Part of my changes are from slow weak flows, part is from the physical strength and durability issues.

    Each beekeeper must weigh the pros and cons of equipment choice. For me, the directions I am going is what seems like will work out better for me in this location.

  18. #78
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    8,984

    Default Re: What size hive boxes are those with bad backs using?

    It really wasn't the bees that made the change it was you. The bees could care less what equipment you use.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  19. #79
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,818

    Default Re: What size hive boxes are those with bad backs using?

    Lazy Shooter. early last summer when i was doing a lot of searching of different hives etc. I cam across a couple of places that sell them.

    Here is one source I found in just a few minutes by searching Golden Mean Hive.
    http://www.etsy.com/listing/37878794...an-proportions
    I know that is a strange thing to search and I am not promoting the golden mean as I don't give it all that much credibility. But TBH's seem to be closely connected to the thinking as well as other. natural, holistic. ethereal or otherwise thinking. But recently saw a comment about horns full or dung getting danced around. OOOOkey dokey. May beat getting drunk and waking up with a hangover. I can't say never tried the dancing part. The hangover. yeah got some experience with that.

    Anyway a strange search that might get you some results.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  20. #80
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    5,649

    Default Re: What size hive boxes are those with bad backs using?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    Lazy Shooter ...
    I know that is a strange thing to search and I am not promoting the golden mean as I don't give it all that much credibility.
    This comment makes no sense. Here is what Lazy Shooter actually asked about:
    Quote Originally Posted by lazy shooter View Post
    Do you know of anyone that sells top bar Lang hives? Thanks in advance. Lazy
    A horizontal hive with vertical sides sized so that Lang frames would fit meets this criteria. A Golden Mean hive with angled sides does not.


    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    But TBH's seem to be closely connected to the thinking as well as other. natural, holistic. ethereal or otherwise thinking. But recently saw a comment about horns full or dung getting danced around. OOOOkey dokey. May beat getting drunk and waking up with a hangover. I can't say never tried the dancing part. The hangover. yeah got some experience with that.
    You got all that from a hangover?
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

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