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Thread: Poachers

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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    19

    Default Poachers

    Hey i have a small operation 100-150 hives , we have had a big increase in beekeepers in where i live due some individuals thinking everyone needs to have a hive in their backyard. So here is the question i have recently found some swarm traps on the outskirts of my yards within 500' or so of my hives ,really pissed me off other people specifically targeting my yards, am i just in these feelings. Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,231

    Default Re: Poachers

    I guess I would just be amused by it and reason that if I did lose a swarm I would prefer that it go into someone's trap instead of getting a frantic call that it is in someone's mailbox. Would I be correct in assuming that it would bother you far less if they had just mentioned something to you before doing it?
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  3. #3

    Default Re: Poachers

    It looks like a little extra incentive for aggressive swarm management on your part. That way….they’ll move on to greener pastures.
    I know a fellow who makes several thousand nucs each spring. A number of them swarm before they get sold. His crew just doesn’t have enough time to chase the swarms. There is another, smaller beekeeper who patrols the area and collects many of those swarms. The nuc producer and the swarm collector seem to have a good relationship. No resentment nor any guilt that I can see.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Seneca, sc
    Posts
    830

    Default Re: Poachers

    If they were on my land or land that I had control of, it would bother me. It would be the trespassing thing that would bother me. If I had traps out, the traps would bother me. If they were on somebody else's land I would talk to the landowner to see if they had his or her permission to set the traps.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,823

    Default Re: Poachers

    I say you are not justified in that swarms are just as much anyone's as they are yours. place your own traps or manage the bees so they do not swarm. that is your best recourse. You have the upper hand in that you can make artificial swarms when you see it is necessary. all the others can do is hope you mess up. If you do those where lost bees to you anyway. at best someone else gets them and starts a hive out of them. IF you have traps in place you have just as much chance of capturing your own swarms as they do. but a swarm is an unowned item.
    I understand that you don't like it, that dos not make it wrong. and placing traps has nothing to do with weather your hives swarm. Your management of them does. You have the opportunity to make their efforts fruitless.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,161

    Default Re: Poachers

    Soak two Q-tips, one in bee-go the other in lemon grass.Put your trap right next to his with a sign " may the best man win".
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    19

    Default Re: Poachers

    Thanks i do swarm management which has been very successful this year so far, that is not the issue for me it is more about the trespassing on land i either lease or have the farmers permission to use, i quess if they just contacted me and not be so sneaky about it wouldn`t bother me as much but patrolling my yards without permission bothers me. So when do they become public property when they fly over my bee yard boundary line? Seems to me when my beagle runs away and they slap me with a fine he is still mine.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Crenshaw County, Alabama
    Posts
    1,889

    Default Re: Poachers

    Timothy....I type too slow.

    I can understand you getting hacked off about the traps, I won't say I wouldn't get a little peeved about it myself. But, what's getting hacked off going to solve? Talk to the folks that own the land. Let them know your feelings about this...they may think the traps are not an issue but realize that they are once they talk with you. Do you think the property owners have given permission to the folks that put up these traps?

    As for ownership of the bees... I don't know if we ever really own bees. We possess them and keep them but I don't know about the ownership thing. But, in regards to your apiary I would think any bees within the perimeter of your apiary as stated in your lease would be your legal possession. Outside of that perimeter would go back to "public domain" I would guess, but anybody attempting to capture a swarm outside the apiary would still need permission from the landowner or they would be breaking the law by trespassing.

    My guess is that you have no stated perimeters in your lease agreement or you may not even have a written lease. I understand this. I live in a rural area where a man's word or handshake was once a solid contract. People have changed over time and seldom do you find a handshake or a man's word a solid contract anymore. We've leased our hay fields for the last upteen years...all on a handshake. It's worked good so far, but we know the folks (there's been different ones) pretty good. I'm afraid a handshake and a man's word is becoming a thing of the past, though.

    If the folks with the traps take them down, what happens to swarms that land in trees 500' from your hives? We know a trap won't entice a hive to swarm...that they're only good for luring a swarm that has already left it's mother hive. Thus, it's really only an issue of what happens with the bees once they have swarmed. Have you got traps placed around your apiary? If a swarm or two gets pass your traps would it be a good thing for them to hive themselves in one of these foreign traps? In other words, better to go in *somebody's* trap rather than in Mrs. Jones' attic? Or maybe better to go in a trap than to die hanging on a limb for lack of a natural cavity? Just some thoughts.

    It'll work out.

    Ed

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Weeki Wachee, Florida,USA
    Posts
    1,916

    Default Re: Poachers

    If they have permission and are not trespassing give them your phone # and location of your other yards. Tell them you will split all the swarms they catch with them. An extra set of eyes on your yards couldn't hurt. If your not trapping swarms... What do you have to lose?

    How much open fed HFCS do you think it take to get the whole yard to swarm? A lot huh?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Crenshaw County, Alabama
    Posts
    1,889

    Default Re: Poachers

    ...don't get confused on which Q-tip goes in which trap, though. The simple thing would be to just tell your bees to stay home.

    If the people that these traps belong to are trapping without the property owners permission or they are trapping otherwise illegally(?) I guess you could term it poaching, it would probably definitely be trespassing. If there are lots of these traps and you can spot them easily then the property owner probably can spot them easily, too, so I would think that permission has been given to put them there.

    Once a swarm leaves your hive they are free-agent bees and will go wherever they want to go. If you are able to catch and hive them while still on your property then good for you. If they land on a limb on your neighbor's property and you proceed to capture them by stepping a foot onto his/her property without permission then you have just become a trespasser and...poacher.

    I can see where you might feel like you're being targeted but don't get too balled up about it, there are worse things that can happen. I would talk with my neighbor and see if something can be worked out regarding the traps. If the traps belong to the neighbor or friends of the neighbor then you will need to accept it, hone your skills on swarm management, and go on to something constructive.

    Talk to them.

    Best wishes,
    Ed

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Branson, MO
    Posts
    573

    Default Re: Poachers

    If you lease or have permission and they don't then just remove their traps. If they are outside the lease or permission area then don't fret over it.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Poachers

    High 5 Keith.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Poachers

    Moved

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Santa Rosa County, Florida
    Posts
    386

    Default Re: Poachers

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    manage the bees so they do not swarm.
    Thanks.I needed a good laugh this morning.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Poachers

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Jarrett View Post
    Soak two Q-tips, one in bee-go the other in lemon grass.Put your trap right next to his with a sign " may the best man win".
    rofl!!!!

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,340

    Default Re: Poachers

    A swarm trap will not incite bees to swarm. If you're there to catch them, they are just as likely to stay where you put them. If you're not there to catch your swarms, they are fair game...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    dadeville, alabama, USA
    Posts
    1,163

    Default Re: Poachers

    I have an old beekeeper that rides around some of my yards during swarm season looking for swarms to catch that have moved away from my yards. He always tells me if he finds one. Some years he complains that they did not swarm. Well, duh, we nuc and split the devil out of them. So I am like Jim lyons, I would rather see them in the old guys box than in a hollow tree or house wall space somewheres. TED
    ALABAMA BEE COMPANY-A member of the Sioux Honey association -*Sweetening a golden tommorrow*

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    St. Clements, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: Poachers

    In Ontario Bee laws and regulations if you are actively chasing a swarm they are considerably your property and you have the right to enter another person's property to retrieve them. As soon as you stop chasing them, someone can chase them and assume ownership. If they enter someone else's equipment you no longer have legal claim to them. That is my understanding of the law anyways, though the law doesn't always make good neighbour's

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Oshawa, Ontario
    Posts
    200

    Default Re: Poachers

    Really ??
    Get over it.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Raeford, NC
    Posts
    157

    Default Re: Poachers

    Quote Originally Posted by wannabeefarms View Post
    In Ontario Bee laws and regulations if you are actively chasing a swarm they are considerably your property and you have the right to enter another person's property to retrieve them. As soon as you stop chasing them, someone can chase them and assume ownership. If they enter someone else's equipment you no longer have legal claim to them.
    Actually that seems very reasonable IMO, I would feel that way about someone catching one of my swarms or me of theirs.

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