Is CCD a myth?

[gonzo]

@casinoken - than you are the second person to say such.... everytime i looked up sugar water online, there was never any mention of lemon...

[robherc]

gonzo, I saw in a book where the breeder was describing making "invert sugar" by adding a few grams of tartaric acid (aka cream of tartar) to the syrup...in this case, it was being used for making queen candy, but I think it gets about the same point across...lowers the Ph so more of the sucrose sugars are broken down into non-crystallizing glucose & fructose. Once the sucrose has been broken down enough, the glucose+fructose syrup is nearly impossible to get to crystallize under normal circumstances (yes, I'm aware that it's possible, AND that "crystallized fructose" is sold in health food stores....but it's not likely to happen unintentionally). This helps with making queen candy for obvious reasons, and should help avoid bees from getting syrup-killed by having the syrup hyper-saturate & re-crystallize sugar granules on the bee.

[sqkcrk]

Not a myth, but a mystery.

[bwdenen]

Sounds like you are inverting the sugar...sort of anyway. I usually invert some of the syrup I make each year, expecially if I think I may not use it all right away. It may or may not be all that benificial for the bees but it make me feel better

http://wvbeekeeper.blogspot.com/2008...gar-syrup.html

[Roland]

"Most beekeepers have never seen it."

True, and when you do, you will not be able to comprehend that there is anything so lethal and virulent.

Yes, many other situations cause symptoms that are similar to, but not ALL of the CCD symptoms. Mite load, mild neonicinoid exposure, a lack of summer flow, etc; but they are nothing compared to the real thing.

(Sorry SQKCRK, no mystery here).

Crazy Roland

[waynesgarden]

ccd= poison and gmo seeds that has poison in there genes! nuf said...

"nuf said," if that were the definitive answer. Please, send all the damning evidence that you seem to possess to the USDA and they can set guidelines, ban the bad stuff and all our problems will be solved. I wish it were that simple. I think the've about finished dismissing those that cried "It's cell phones. nuf said."

If they simply accept your simplistic "GMO, nuf said" opinion without thoroughly investgating the many posssiblities, including stresses caused by the combinations of various factors such as pesticides, mites and viruses, we're all doomed.

'Nuf said, as far as I'm concerned.

Wayne

[RobWok]

I add a TBS of apple cider vinegar per gallon. More than anything to keep it from crystalizing. I keep the batches in the fridge until I need em. I try not to feed too much anyway, so that's why I'm more concerned about the crystalization.

Back on the thread, I think that neonicontinoid pesticides make the absolute best sense for a cause of CCD. Just look at the cause and effect, even the smoking gun. I think there is serious concern with thinking it's a disease. There will be a "treatment" for the "disease" soon enough, and if the company that makes the treatment has any lobbying power, they're going to try to make it mandatory. Most healthy hives can handle foulbrood - especially if you recycle your old brood comb. I've never had it, but I've read the stories and the research on it. However, we have lot of folks scared not to load up their bees proactively with terramyacin.

I have mixed feelings about the hype. On one hand, I have people pay me to do cutouts and trapouts and don't want me to harm a single bee. It's great because we get fewer people spraying pesticides to try to do it themselves. However, do you know of any other species out there that has 2 Million (and that's just colonies) in a country that considered endangered? What I tell people is, the honey bee is not a native of the US. There are over 2 million commercial colonies. However, you are doing a good thing. What is in danger is a feral bee that can handle the diseases and pests that have been brought into the U.S. By having me take care of your bees, you are sustaining genetic material that allows us to have a bee that doesn't need to be medicated just to survive.

Rob.

[sqkcrk]

(Sorry SQKCRK, no mystery here).

Crazy Roland

A Thriller than? Sure ain't no Western or Romance Novel.

[waynesgarden]

Back on the thread, I think that neonicontinoid pesticides make the absolute best sense for a cause of CCD. Just look at the cause and effect, even the smoking gun. I think there is serious concern with thinking it's a disease.

Again please, PLEASE!!! RobWok, send evidence of your "smoking gun" to the USDA and they can all go home and we beekeepers can live in peace tonight knowing it is a direct result of poisoning and not a disease.

We all want to be able to point to Bayer as the culprit and have them banned and our bees thrive for ever more. But no one, with all their wishful and definitively stated opinions, has yet seemed able to prove it. Who is up to the task? Please, someone? Anyone? Proof? Actual scientific proof and not merely wishful thinking? Anyone?

Wayne

[BayHighlandBees]

I think that neonicontinoid pesticides make the absolute best sense for a cause of CCD. Just look at the cause and effect, even the smoking gun

what was the smoking gun?

[BayHighlandBees]

dupe post

[AstroBee]

I do not doubt that CCD is real, but I see no smoking gun. The whole neonicotinoids thing just does not resonate with me. I have lots of bees sitting on the edge of cotton/soybeans/corn, and not for just a year or two, for many years (10+ years). I know for a fact that treated seeds are used and the neonicotinoids are being applied to the fields. My bees are very healthy and I have not witnessed anything that remotely resembles CCD.

[gmcharlie]

CCD Is used as a common excuse for poor beekeeping, It does exist, and it does happen on huge scales, BUT a majority of beekeepers who lose hives, then blame CCD, when it was actually something much simpler like pesticede, mites, or bad feed.
One of the biggest guys in the industry made that statement to me last week, and upon reflection he right on. Poor beekeeping is responsible for a lot of the claimed CCD cases. That said there are definatly times its a mistery and something beyound our knowledge has reared its head.

[lazy shooter]

I have been a bee keeper, maybe a keeper of bees is more accurate, for 14 months. I have been reading about bees a bit longer, maybe 18 months. As a new beek, my fact finding about CCD is approximately equal to my long term knowledge of Sasquatch. I now understand there are people hunting Sasquatch with ultraviolet lights, heat seeking devices and long range hearing equipment. The application of these technologies may advance the search for Sasquatch somewhere ahead of the CCD conjectures that I have seen in print to date.

[casinoken]

Wayne, if u want a smoking gun about neonicotinoids, just look at what Bayer did in California this year. Instead of going through a re-evaluation of their most profitable neonicotinoid, they pulled it from the market and asked almond growers not to spray it. An admission of a problem from Bayer itself? Don't know, but in these tough economic times, I doubt a company would pull its most profitable product from the market if it didn't know there was a potential problem. Just sayin'.

[RobWok]

One of the purported benefits of neonicotinoids is a sensory loss of direction for social insects. France, Slovenia, and other areas saw causal connections between the introduction of the pesticide and CCD symptoms. Additionally, though it is supposed to break down in sunlight, how many of us build hive bodies made out of glass?

[BayHighlandBees]

sounds more like a political problem than a problem with the product. If Bayer thought that there was a real problem with the pesticide then they wouldn't they pull it everywhere (and not just California almond growers)?

It worth mentioning the bees are thriving in the highest neonics use areas like North Dakota. There's also the flaw here that CCD doesn't mirror the map of agricultural neonics coverage (which it should if it is responsible of CCD).

[crash2usaf]

CCD isn't a myth as much as a catch all to explain a new phenomenon that is happening. There are definite markers for CCD and a multitude of problems found in correlation- it is a scenario of which came first- the chicken or the egg. When these losses came we imported a bunch of bees and with them a whole host of pathogens our bees weren't used to. According to most reports this nosema c. is a real booger. The virus isn't contained in just the midgut which is why fumegelin isn't effective, the virus needs the sugars to survive itself, hence no brood rearing, comb building etc... and it turns the nurse bees into foragers much faster. So if the virus is using the sugars in the nectar then the bee that need this amount to get from point A to point B will run short because the virus is eating it. They are weak and can't fly, can't fight off mights. There is no tell tale blk smelly poop. I was told to use a teaspoon of chlorine or lemonjuice in the sugar water til they overcome it.