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Thread: Is CCD a myth?

  1. #1
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    Cool Is CCD a myth?

    I pose this question based on information another beek pointed out to me. If u look at the USDA numbers for hives in the U.S., there has never been a significant drop in numbers of hives posted. Every year for the past 10 to 15 years the numbers alter in the 200,000 range from year to year. It has been that way since before CCD began being reported. Is the USDA just making guesses at numbers of Hives? I ask this because I know that the numbers reported for Mississippi are totally erroneous. The USDA reports regularly that Mississippi has 18,000 hives. How do they come up with that number? I know one beek in Mississippi that has over 18,000 hives. In Mississippi u are not required to register your hives, so are they just guessing? The Mississippi Dept. of Ag. regularly posts that during the season Mississippi has around 31,000 hives and during the winter it swells to around 160,000 hives. Has anyone here ever experienced CCD? Just wondering why u heard of 50 to 90% losses of hives, yet no numbers to support those claims. Just thought this might be something interesting to discuss.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Is CCD a myth?

    It sounds to me like you are saying accurate reporting of colonies is a myth. The USDA is reporting, for example, 30% losses for 2010/2011, not limited to CCD cases. When you hear of 90% losses, that obviously is not a national average and I don't know of anyone who says it is. In any statistical survey, there always will be high and low figures reported by individuals. That's part of how averages are determined.

    I've never lost a hive to CCD that I am aware of, but it would be the height of silliness to offer that as proof of a "CCD myth." It will take a lot more than some fuzzy idea of statistics to make some beekeepers I know question the CCD losses they've sustained.

    It's out there.

    Wayne

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Is CCD a myth?

    Last year my mentor had 56% losses overwintering his hives...he blamed CCD
    That said, I didn't know enough then, and probably don't now, to have ruled out other potential causes, but CCD and SIDS have a ton in common...I.E. when a hive or baby dies, and nobody can immediately tell why, it must've been CCD/SIDS. They're not really disorders, or syndromes, as they're named...so much as a statistical category to throw everything unknown into; in my honest, educated, far more than just an "opinion."

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Is CCD a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by casinoken View Post
    Just wondering why u heard of 50 to 90% losses of hives, yet no numbers to support those claims.
    This may help
    http://www.plosone.org/article/info:...l.pone.0004071

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Is CCD a myth?

    " is ccd a myth"

    Nope... just the person staring back at them in the mirror.
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Is CCD a myth?

    Another thought that I should've posted earlier...as you said, the MS D of A reported hive numbers being much higher as winter approaches, most likely form beeks making splits/nucs. The reason why the numbers aren't continuing to spiral upwards is that many of these splits/nucs either die themselves, or are used to replace other colonies that died, over the winter...thus accounting for the "steady" numbers you are seeing. Understanding that, it seems that, if anything, the steady numbers do more to prove CCD, rather than disprove it.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Is CCD a myth?

    What about feral hives? Those numbers are only hives that beekeepers have, right?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Is CCD a myth?

    The high winter numbers are from beeks that ship hives all over the country for pollination services bringing them back. Mississippi is one of the top producers of queens and packages due to our mild winters. Wayne, u stsed that the USDA reported 30% losses for 2010/2011, however if u look at the number of hives from the previous year their reporting number is nowhere near 30%. As a running average, the USDA reports that there are approximately 2.4 million hives nationwide. If u look at the annual reort numbers for th past 15 years they range between roughly 2.1 and 2.6 million hives, with variations annually, up or down, usually averaging around 200,000 hives. To have a 30% loss of hives, u should see that years number drop by roughly 700,000 hives, and I haven't seen that big of a drop in any year from the USDA.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Is CCD a myth?

    Don't get me wrong, I believe CCD exists, however if someone who had never heard of it were given the annual report numbers from USDA and asked if they saw in the numbers where and if a major disaster hit the beekeeping industry, they would have to say no, because the numbers never bear out any major changes as they would if there were a 30% loss in one year. As I stated when I started this thread, I believe the USDA simply puts out bogus numbers in their reports. Another efficient government agency.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Is CCD a myth?

    I think the federal government makes a good attempt at their reports. I know in my case they are relentless until you give them what they want. Are they accurate? More a case of garbage in garbage out as I see it, many beekeepers refuse to fill them out and quite often some fly under the radar and the government is never aware of them. If you have never dealt with a county FSA office they may not know about you. I think they are probably useful in showing trends more than highly accurate numbers.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Is CCD a myth?

    If you had 100 colonies in 2010, experienced 30% winter losses andpurchased 30 packages you would again report that you had 100 colonies in 2011. That is why the number of reported colonies remains relatively constant.

    Since the population increases every year, we cannot conclude that the reports of human death is obviously a myth.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Is CCD a myth?

    LOL, good point Roger

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Is CCD a myth?

    lol, Roger.... this is one reason why i hated my statistics class!!!

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Is CCD a myth?

    Has anyone here ever experienced CCD?

    Yes, 623 went to 75 and then 10, then 0. (keeping track of the original hives). Yes it is real, and it kills bees dead. Roger Crum has the right idea. We have since replaced most of the bees, so the numbers have not changed much. Why do you think package prices have skyrocketed in the last 6 years? Increased demand to replace lost hives.

    Crazy Roland

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Is CCD a myth?

    Has anyone here ever experienced CCD?

    I started a thread asking that question a while back on this forum. Personally, I don't doubt that CCD is very real, and that some operations have been decimated by it.

    What I do feel, though, is that many bee deaths are attributed to CCD by people who really haven't experienced CCD. I think a lot of deaths are caused by other things (mites, viruses, cold, etc) and if the reasons for their deaths aren't understood or recognized, then CCD is sometimes blamed.

    From what I have learned, CCD is a shocking decline, and is not like anything else. It's not a myth, but it isn't very common. Most beekeepers have never seen it.

    Adam

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Is CCD a myth?

    ccd= poison and gmo seeds that has poison in there genes! nuf said...

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Is CCD a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Foster Collins View Post



    From what I have learned, CCD is a shocking decline, and is not like anything else. It's not a myth, but it isn't very common. Most beekeepers have never seen it.

    Adam
    Actually I believe it shares enough similarities with varroa collapse that one is often mistaken for the other.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Is CCD a myth?

    i saw a recent article suggesting ccd may be due to the feeding of sugar water/syrup... when i first started on my beeking adventures, i was told by a very reliable source to add a few drops of lemon juice to it in order to bring the PH level to a more natural level. I haven't heard his instructions anywhere else regarding sugar water.... any thoughts on this (not to derail the thread...)

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Is CCD a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by casinoken View Post
    I pose this question based on information another beek pointed out to me. If u look at the USDA numbers for hives in the U.S., there has never been a significant drop in numbers of hives posted. Every year for the past 10 to 15 years the numbers alter in the 200,000 range from year to year. It has been that way since before CCD began being reported. Is the USDA just making guesses at numbers of Hives? I ask this because I know that the numbers reported for Mississippi are totally erroneous. The USDA reports regularly that Mississippi has 18,000 hives. How do they come up with that number? I know one beek in Mississippi that has over 18,000 hives. In Mississippi u are not required to register your hives, so are they just guessing? The Mississippi Dept. of Ag. regularly posts that during the season Mississippi has around 31,000 hives and during the winter it swells to around 160,000 hives. Has anyone here ever experienced CCD? Just wondering why u heard of 50 to 90% losses of hives, yet no numbers to support those claims. Just thought this might be something interesting to discuss.
    it real guy , or Poland wouldn't ban this company http://www.naturalnews.com/036010_Po...o_GM_corn.html

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Is CCD a myth?

    Gonzo, I make my sugar syrup with 2 quarts water, 5 lbs sugar, 8 teabags of caffiene free chamomile tea, and two fresh squeezed lemons. The lemons help to lower the ph and convert the sugar to more of what the bees are used to gathering. I checked the ph and it is very close to the ph of honey.

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