Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

[jim lyon]

Herb: I have only used it in the late summer, early fall time period (followed by an October oxalic dribble) primarily because our counts have been so low in the spring and I fear the odor might affect a small nuc trying to get a queen mated. That makes late May and early June our only pre-honey flow window and I just havent seen the mite numbers to justify using it nor do I feel comfortable installing them at the same time we are putting on honey supers for fear of odor residue.

[hpm08161947]

Jim: Here we have a late Spring and Fall honey harvest. Both small in comparison to SD. So I may well give this CO. a call and see what it does in an application following the upcoming honey harvest.

[RobWok]

So, are you going to keep a treated control group to see if not treating really helps?

I tried not treating. Lost 600 out of 700. Whatever that percentage is. This Spring I had 88% survive. I think I will keep doing what I see working.

okay, you got me there. The best rule is go with what works. If you're stuck in a cycle of buying packages, you're stuck. Most people can't afford the years it takes to build up mongrel colonies. I understand. Not judging, I just wish it didn't have to be this way because it's a tough business to eek out a living, and having losses and spending money on medicines make that profit margin even tighter.

[Oldtimer]

To me what they are saying makes sense. It follows everything I know about medications.

Which is what? One thing that can be quickly picked up reading this forum is that nearly everybody is an expert on medication. Or at least, has an firm opinion which is based on "science", or what they think is science.

The most open minded it seems to me, are the commercial beekeepers, who are always trying new things, including not treating, and doing realistic assessements of the results.

Thing is, when varroa first arrived and started wiping out bees wholesale, it was unmedicated bees they were wiping out wholesale.

[Acebird]

What ever, my sister in law just died of cancer. My poor brother had just two days to say his good bye from diagnosis to her passing away. Take your pills, treat your bees, have a party, life isn't fair. "Only the good die young". 60 is pretty young...

[honeyshack]

Yeah, I noticed that too, there has to be a story there somewhere. Perhaps one of our Canadian friends.........

Trying to find the post in which this refers to...can not...so what is made in Canada?...in reference to the thread please

[NasalSponge]

Honeyshack... http://www.members.shaw.ca/orioleln/thymol.html

[honeyshack]

We already have a product that is thymol based in Canada which was approved for use either last fall or this spring. It is called thymovar. It is very possible that this company has either not applied in Canada or has not completed the process. PRMA our pest management regulatory might also feel that since we have thymovar, hopguard (pending final approval) formic, MAQS, OA, Check mite Apistan and Apivar, that we have enough to use at this present time.
It is possible that the heiyser was not as on the ball as the company who owns Thymovar in their application process or that they did not meet the standards for PRMA.

We have some products available to us which you do not and visa versa. Such is the way of thing

[Oldtimer]

We use Thymovar over here, but straight up, it's pretty unreliable. Jim, do you know if the thymol product you are using is better than Thymovar?

From what I read it seems you guys laws are the opposite of ours. You guys are not allowed to use a product on bees till it's approved for use, is that correct? Over here we can use what ever we like, unless it's specifically prohibited.

[honeyshack]

yup that is the way it is here. If we are caught using an unapproved method, a hefty fine

From what i hear, Thymovar (have not used it yet) is pretty temp dependant. As well, those heavy infested hives will need more treatments because, like formic's Mite Away products, leaves more mites in the hives due to the nature of the treatments.
Chem treatments have about a 98% effacy. Apivar, check mite, etc. The naturals seem to have an 80% effacy...reason more treatments are necessary. So if the load is high, it will be high again in short order. Where as the chem treatments knock back hard, leaving a longer time until the mites reach critical.
It is the reason here in Manitoba the provincial bee guys recommend hard treatments in the spring or due dillegence with soft (formic flash is 5 treatments a 4-7 days apart) and then a soft treatment in the fall. Knock back hard in the spring, clean up for the fall

[jim lyon]

No, I don't know anything about Thymovar, I'm not aware that its available in the US. The Thymol products available here that I know of are the gel based Apiguard sold by Dadant and ApiLife Var which is an Italian made wafer. The odd thing is that Thymomite isnt sold in the US but I havent had any trouble getting it shipped in. It is a thin strip made of a felt type of material which seems quite effective used on the top bars without a rim but best results are between the boxes of a double. Apiguard is also quite effective used in a double but requires a rim if used on the top bars of a single as the bees usually seal it up to the lid. The ApiLife wafer is a fairly good product but pretty expensive. All these thymol products really need to be applied when the temps are still pretty warm but not recommended in extremely high temps, the good thing about them, though, is that the thymol seems quite effective for a fairly long period of time (unlike formic products) so a cool spell only seems to delay treatment until the temps warm up again. Inspectors that I have dealt with here in the US generally don't take it upon themselves to try to police what is used in hives, they might suggest and make recommendations but few beekeepers have actually had charges brought against them for using unapproved products. I am not going to get into the whole matter about whether that is good, bad or otherwise.

[Ozarks Honey Company]

I said I would only medicate if they need it. He told me that there was no doubt that they would need to be medicated for mites and I pretty much have no choice.

Is this true ???

I would say it is only true if that is how you want to go... I know many beekeepers that treat and many like myself that don't. I wont get into the whole right/wrong discussions about why you should/shouldn't treat... But what I can tell you is that yes you do have a choice and unless it is required by law in your state you can successfully keep bees without treatment. Key word here being "keep." A very wise 30+ year beek once said to me we must be beekeepers not bee-have-rs. I believe she is right, so what does that mean??? Can you simply put them out in the yard and expect them to thrive and take care of themselves? NO! We must "keep" the bees and tend to them with a thoughtful process and take care of them to help them to survive (medication or not).

Don't take what your inspector said as the only rule (unless it is law). There are many beekeepers that use essential oils and natural methods like sugar dusting, hive splitting and drone frames to keep mites in check. All with great success. My suggestion is if you are new to beekeeping, find a mentor that has ideas about beekeeping that align with yours and has been beekeeping for a good number of years with those methods and you will likely be successful.

Best of luck,

[Roland]

Oldtimer nailed it when he spoke of mites:

it was unmedicated bees they were wiping out wholesale.

Now it is the your choice of methods, chemical or non-chemical, but is sure seems like you never get more out of your bees than you put effort in.

Crazy Roland

[bbrowncods]

I know this is an old thread, and don't want to pick at any scabs.
In VA the state does not require inspections if you are a hobbyist (I think less than 120 gal/year sales of honey). However, you have to put on your bottles that this is a product of an uninspected hive. Fair enough. A couple of questions.
1. What does an inspecter look for generally. Can you fail an inspection?
2. What are the general requirements for a "certificate of health". I know each state is probably different.

[sqkcrk]

Yes, each State is different. Whenh NY had a full compliment of 18 or 20 Apiary Inspectors the main focus of Inspection was the finding of American Foulbrood Disease and other brood diseases and determining the presence and level of Tracheal mite and/or Varroa mite infestation.

If AFB was found a Quarantine and Abatement Order was issued requiring the owner, under State Law, to kill the bees of that colony and to burn or deeply bury the equipment. Scorching of supers and other hive parts was acceptable. Completely burning up the boxes is not necassary. Once the disease was destroyed, under supervision of an Inspector, a Quarantine and Abatement release form was issued. The Quarantine and Abatement Order carrys a fine for noncompliance, otherwise no penalty is attatched to the Order. Historically no fines have ever been claimed by the State.

No health certificate was issued. Simply a report of findings, unless disease was found, as described above. If one wishes to transport colonies from one State to another a Certificate of Health is issued after Inspection.

The Eastern States of the United States have an agreement on what they accept as far as an Inspection for InterState Transportation. Generally this is an Inspection of at least 10% of the colonies to be transported.

Failing doesn't come into it exactly, the point is to maintain a healthy population of beehives w/in a State. I guess one could look at presence or absence of disease as a pass or fail.

[AstroBee]

I know this is an old thread, and don't want to pick at any scabs.
In VA the state does not require inspections if you are a hobbyist (I think less than 120 gal/year sales of honey). However, you have to put on your bottles that this is a product of an uninspected hive. Fair enough. A couple of questions.
1. What does an inspecter look for generally. Can you fail an inspection?
2. What are the general requirements for a "certificate of health". I know each state is probably different.

You'll have to excuse me if this response is not consistent with the thread, since I haven't read all 9 pages.

There are two types of inspections in VA that a beekeeper/honey producer must be concerned with. If you sell bees (nucs, queens, packages, etc.) your bees must be inspected to get a cert of health. This basically consists of contacting the state officials and requesting an inspection. The inspector will go through the majority of your hives and is looking primarily for brood disease, but notes several other things as well. They will give you a report and are supposed to give you stickers to attach to your bee packages. The actual law reads:

Certificate of health to accompany bill of sale.
No bees on combs, hives, used beekeeping equipment with combs, or appliances may be offered for sale without a certificate of health prepared by the State Apiarist for each specifically identifiable item. The certificate of health must accompany each bill of sale.

Rearing package bees and queens for sale.
A. No person shall rear package bees or queens for sale without first applying to the State Apiarist for inspection at least once during each summer season.
B. Upon the discovery of any bee diseases, the rearer or seller shall at once cease to ship bees from affected apiaries until the State Apiarist issues a certificate of health for such apiaries.
C. No person engaged in rearing queen bees for sale shall use honey in the making of bee food for use in mailing cages.


Regarding the sale of honey, here's the VA law:

3.2-5130. Inspections required to operate food establishment.

A. It is unlawful to operate a food manufacturing plant, food storage warehouse, or retail food store until it has been inspected by the Commissioner. This section shall not apply to:

1. Food manufacturing plants operating under a grant of inspection from the Office of Meat and Poultry Services or a permit from the Office of Dairy and Foods in the Department; and Grade A fluid milk manufacturing plants and shellfish and crustacea processing plants operating under a permit from the Virginia Department of Health;

2. Nonprofit organizations holding one-day food sales;

3. Private homes where the resident processes and prepares candies, jams, and jellies not considered to be low-acid or acidified low-acid food products and baked goods that do not require time or temperature control after preparation if such products are: (i) sold to an individual for his own consumption and not for resale; (ii) sold at the private home or at farmers markets; and (iii) labeled "NOT FOR RESALE - PROCESSED AND PREPARED WITHOUT STATE INSPECTION." Nothing in this subdivision shall create or diminish the authority of the Commissioner under § 3.2-5102;

4. Private homes where the resident processes and prepares honey produced by his own hives, if: (i) the resident sells less than 250 gallons of honey annually; (ii) the resident does not process and sell other food products in addition to honey, except as allowed by subdivision A 3; (iii) the product complies with the other provisions of this chapter; (iv) the product is labeled "PROCESSED AND PREPARED WITHOUT STATE INSPECTION. WARNING: Do Not Feed Honey to Infants Under One Year Old."; and (v) the resident certifies in writing annually to the Department that he meets the requirements of this subdivision. Nothing in this subdivision shall increase or diminish the authority of the Commissioner under § 3.2-5102; and

5. Retail establishments that: (i) do not prepare or serve food; (ii) sell only food or beverages that are sealed in packaging by the manufacturer and have been officially inspected in the manufacturing process; (iii) do not sell infant formulas; (iv) do not sell salvaged foods; and (v) certify to the Department that they meet the provisions of this section. Retail establishments that meet the provisions of this subdivision shall be exempt from inspection and the inspection fees. Nothing in this section shall prevent the Department from inspecting any retail establishment if a consumer complaint is received.


Item 4 gives an exemption to inspection for "small" producers, but the jars MUST have an extra label. And yes, you can fail either type of inspection. They are particularly concerned with proper labeling.

[bbrowncods]

Thanks AstroBee. I guess you would have to get the food processing inspection instead of the State Apiarist inspection in order to not be required to have the "...PREPARED WITHOUT STATE INSPECTION..." label on your product.

[AstroBee]

Yes, I jump through those hoops just to avoid that extra label. Its a bit of a pain, but not too bad.

[otto]

wow, all those replies and nobody answered your question .

"What is the best brand of mite treatment. Maybe one with the least impact??? Organic??? "
may be DDT?

[Acebird]

Really, I think there were a lot of answers to his questions.