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  1. #141
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    Lakeland, FL USA
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    784

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    .

    Quote Originally Posted by NirvanaFan View Post
    I wouldn't consider two years to be a success. Nobody is saying bees won't survive for a couple years without treatments.
    Kurt Cobain wouldn't believe in treating, if he were still around.

    .

  2. #142
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    If you want to try and keep chemical/treatment free bees, you're going to need a plan.

    Any plan is better than none at all.

    You can't even use the 'Live and Let Die' or 'Bond' method with only a hive or two because the odds are against you.

  3. #143
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Monroe County, NY
    Posts
    37

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Quote Originally Posted by PatBeek View Post
    .

    Kurt Cobain wouldn't believe in treating, if he were still around.

    .
    Not that Nirvana, but they're alright I guess.

  4. #144
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Lakeland, FL USA
    Posts
    784

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Quote Originally Posted by NirvanaFan View Post
    Not that Nirvana, but they're alright I guess.
    Thanks for clearing that up. Since it's not THAT Nirvana, it would be off-topic to discuss.


  5. #145
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,241

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Quote Originally Posted by NirvanaFan View Post
    Nobody is saying bees won't survive for a couple years without treatments.
    They certainly are. How long will a hive last if you treat it will chemicals and don't requeen? What is the cost of these chemicals? What personal risk do you take using these chemicals? Are you trained in how to apply them? After all we are speaking about newbies.

    WLC I do have a plan. Multiply the hives that live. If they all don't make it buy another nuc. I am a hobbyist. The cost of a nuc is less than the average cost of smoking for a week. I don't smoke so I can afford 52 nucs a year and I only want one maybe every two years if all goes wrong. If it goes right, I don't need to spend anything. I never had a hobby that was so cheap to enjoy.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  6. #146
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Poplar Bluff, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    2,280

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    The general rule of thumb I've read is that if a hive makes it three years without treatments, the odds are the bees are survivors. As stated, most hives will go two years before succumbing to the mites, sans treatments. Some as reported, won't even make it that long.

    That is why those reported being treatment free speak of hives 4 and more years along in the process, treatment free.
    Regards,
    Steven
    "If all you have is a hammer, the whole world is a nail." - A.H. Maslow

  7. #147
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Richmond, VA UNITED STATES
    Posts
    163

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Ditto the BushMan. I've been keeping bees for 12 years. I medicated the first year, then thought it was ridiculous the money and the risk. Have always run screen bottom boards. That hive went great and created new ones for several years until I made a couple mistakes. Started over with feral bees from a cutout. Haven't lost a single one, any winter for the last several years. Never use any treatment. I don't get a ton of honey (only 25 gallons off of 5 hives last year) but I get enough. I get rid of mean hives (had my first one this year) and weak hives (kill the queen and combine) I rotate my oldest wax out, and will feed sugar water to give them a boost, but I limit even that to only when I feel its close to emergency situations. I run double deep broods on screened bottom boards with 1/6 screen and oil trays.

    Rob
    www.mongrelbees.com

  8. #148
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,241

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    What's wrong with 5 gallons per hive? I am sure some people would love 5 gallons per hive.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  9. #149
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Garland, Bladen County, NC, USA
    Posts
    2,957

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Let's see... that would be about 60 lbs per hive average. I believe that is above the state average in VA.
    “Don’t tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.” - The Quran

  10. #150
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,624

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    We don't really know what the Inspector said, only what the OPer has reported, which may or may not be accurate. Did the Inspector say medicate or treat, for instance.

    A decent well informed Apiary Inspector should, if asked, be able to give a range of techniques and materials or management plans or alternatives to addressing Varroa mites, as well as other maladies of bees.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  11. #151
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,624

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    How long will a hive last if you treat it will chemicals and don't requeen?
    Over the last 5 years 66% of all colonies, both treated and not treated, have survived into the next year. Hives last indefinitely, until they rot I guess.

    This Spring I had an 88% survival rate. So, some of those colonies have lived for two years, some three. If one has noticed my Green Dot Queen Thread. So she has kept a colony going longer than Acebird has had bees. Not treatment free either. Proper treatment or good genetics? Hmm.
    Last edited by sqkcrk; 05-31-2012 at 07:55 PM.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  12. #152
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    If I remember correctly, the OP called the inspector in to take a look.

    One thing you don't want to do is call in an inspector, and then ignore their advice.

    If you don't treat and your bees croak, don't bother the guy by calling him in.

    Just buy new bees.

  13. #153
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Richmond, VA UNITED STATES
    Posts
    163

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    What's wrong with 5 gallons per hive? I am sure some people would love 5 gallons per hive.
    I was being funny. There are some beeks that believe if you don't treat, the mites weaken the hives and they can't produce enough. I just don't get some beeks, and they're on this forum. Every year they buy medication, and prophalactically treat their hives. I wonder how many normal beeks with over 10 hives ever keep a control group just to see if the medication really helps or hurts. Here's one for you: The bees allow the yeasts to ferment naturally. Well, when we load the bees up with antifungals and antibacterials, the bee bread can't be broken by natural enzymes. As a result, it's not as bio-available for the brood. Just try feeding a human baby steak and potatoes and regular cow's milk. He may not starve, but he also may not perform to his potential. All the building blocks are there, but not in a way that can be used.

    Sorry if all this has been hashed over again in the forums, I just don't have the time to read them, but I'm making the time lately just to see what's out there.

    I have 10 and starting some 8 frame Langstroths, and a couple top bar hives. Thinking about making some Warre hives, and I believe I have the best looking observation hive out there. I have been keeping bees for 12 years, so... in about another 400 years I might know everything I need to know.

    My bees all come from cutouts and trapouts. Some are great, some not so much. However, I think if you survey the guys that keep bees naturally, and those that medicate, us natural guys are happier. Plus, I don't have to spend all that money on chemicals. And one more thing. The same guys that make your mitecides are the ones that make the neonicotinoids that are probably the biggest killers of bees out there. You really want to vote with your dollar that way?

  14. #154
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,624

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    So, are you going to keep a treated control group to see if not treating really helps?

    I tried not treating. Lost 600 out of 700. Whatever that percentage is. This Spring I had 88% survive. I think I will keep doing what I see working.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  15. #155
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Don't forget the 'money pits and time bandits'.

    There are hidden costs associated with treatment free beekeeping.

    That would be in equipment, productivity, and management.

    So, while you may save on treatments, it'll cost you elsewhere.

  16. #156
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,241

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    I tried not treating. Lost 600 out of 700.
    What did you do with the hundred that survived? Are they part of the reason that you have 88% survival now? If you were medicating all along and then stop for a "trial" you are going to lose those that are dependent on the medication. That is what you are proving in your trial.

    The comparison you are looking for is a group of bees that never have been medicated compared to bees that always have been medicated. What do those two numbers say? This data has been stated on this forum more than once because there are beekeepers that have not medicated for long periods of time. So either you believe the people that are reporting what they have done or you think they are all lying for some unknown reason.

    To me what they are saying makes sense. It follows everything I know about medications.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  17. #157
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,311

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobWok View Post
    My bees all come from cutouts and trapouts. Some are great, some not so much. However, I think if you survey the guys that keep bees naturally, and those that medicate, us natural guys are happier. Plus, I don't have to spend all that money on chemicals. And one more thing. The same guys that make your mitecides are the ones that make the neonicotinoids that are probably the biggest killers of bees out there. You really want to vote with your dollar that way?
    http://www.members.shaw.ca/orioleln/thymol.html
    I get a lot of joy out of using this product, it has made me a very happy person . I am spending the equivalent of a half pound of honey per year on a fall treatment and my bees are thriving like a baby on mothers milk. They are neither Monsanto or Bayer, It is a small company that probably dosent gross whats in the petty cash drawer of those bigger corporations, but really the only important things are is it safe and does it work. I don't begrudge any entity a profit if their products have made me a profit.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  18. #158
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,241

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Well there is a vote of confidence. It is made in Canada but can't be used in Canada?
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  19. #159
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,311

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Well there is a vote of confidence. It is made in Canada but can't be used in Canada?
    Yeah, I noticed that too, there has to be a story there somewhere. Perhaps one of our Canadian friends.........
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  20. #160
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Garland, Bladen County, NC, USA
    Posts
    2,957

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Quote Originally Posted by jim lyon View Post
    I get a lot of joy out of using this product, it has made me a very happy person . I am spending the equivalent of a half pound of honey per year on a fall treatment and my bees are thriving like a baby on mothers milk.
    Is it a Fall treatment, because the brood is shutting down.... or is it just that it is a convenient time of year?

    Is this the only Mite specific treatment that you use during the year?

    I need a new Spring treatment.... lookin hard...
    “Don’t tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.” - The Quran

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