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  1. #81
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    Feb 2010
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    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Visual inspections are subjective.
    And, if you are inspecting only 10% of hives being shipped across state lines, there's also the question of statistical significance.


    'There are pathogens all around every living thing waiting for the right conditions.'

    That's not what I wrote:

    >You can say that they look healthy.
    But, at the same time, those bees could be harboring every single pest and pathogen known to beekeeping as 'inapparent' infections.<

    Do you understand the difference?

  2. #82
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Do you understand how things are done? Do you understand that the way things are done are also deemed adequate for the industry to run smoothly and in a healthy state? You seem to want to argue about how you think things should be, but you don't give us any idea of how you think these things should be done, by whom, and what the cost would be and paid by whom. That I surely don't understand.

    How to find and recognize AFB in beehives I do undertand. Do you?
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
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    DuPage County, Illinois USA
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    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    OK, so add "inapparent" to my post. Point is, we accept that there are all kinds of unseen things going on that the naked eye can't detect, yet one can tell the basic health of a hive by visual observation. Perhaps you could explain who you were addressing your post #79 to? Maybe I missed something.
    Regards, Barry

  4. #84
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    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    'You seem to want to argue about how you think things should be, but you don't give us any idea of how you think these things should be done, by whom, and what the cost would be and paid by whom. That I surely don't understand.'

    As I've said before, we might as well allow for self certification.

    I also suggested that if you are going to purchase or inspect hives, look over the treatment logs/receipts.

    That's not an expensive thing to do.

    'Perhaps you could explain who you were addressing your post #79 to? Maybe I missed something. '


    Acebird's comment.

    The whole tread is about the contamination issue. Where do varroa come from? Other varroa and other hives. You can say something similar about the other pests and pathogens.

    Spores are spores. Viruses are viruses. Arthropods are arthropods.

    If they're in your hive, kindly don't tell me that they are healthy.

    They are contaminated with a pest/pathogen.

    Contaminated doesn't mean healthy. And, vica versa.

    Yes, your hives can look healthy, but they can be quite contaminated.

    Perhaps we have different definitions of healthy?

  5. #85
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    Dec 1999
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    DuPage County, Illinois USA
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    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Perhaps we do. I get the feeling your "ideal"/"normal" hive (if there is such a thing) is free of all pests and pathogens. My understanding of a normal healthy hive will still have some of these at low levels that are "statistically insignificant."
    Regards, Barry

  6. #86
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    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    You mean undetectable to the naked eye. They're present in significant numbers, but aren't causing an overt/apparent infection.

  7. #87
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    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    There is no unacceptable level of varroa mites, as far as Interstate transport is concerned. Health certificates are issued to infested colonies all the time. There is no way to completely clear a colony of bees of its' varroa mites.

    I thought you were going on about AFB detection and now you switch to varroa. Both are visually inspected for.

    Nosema is detected/counted by eye too.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  8. #88
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    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Yes, I mean undetectable to the naked eye. Yes, they're present. No, not in significant numbers because they "aren't causing an overt/apparent infection." I'm done with this one. Carry on Mark!
    Regards, Barry

  9. #89
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    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    If I must.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  10. #90
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    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    'No, not in significant numbers because they "aren't causing an overt/apparent infection." I'm done with this one.'

    Those inapparent pests/pathogens are still capable of infecting other colonies where they can cause an outbreak.

    I'm done with this one too!

    Carry on Mark.

  11. #91
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    Mar 2010
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    Des Moines County, IA, USA
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    128

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    WLC,

    Over treating for pathegens produces resistent pathegens.

    With your outlook anyone who has had sex or used a public toilet shoud be treated for STD's.

    And we all should be given chemo and radiation for cancer because we all have some cancer cells floating around.

    I could wish you would take remedial action for your ignorance because not only might it be hereditary it might be contagious.

    Later
    Push, Pull, or get Out of the Way

  12. #92
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    Feb 2010
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    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    ROTFLOL!

    You're advocating calling bees that are carrying a parasite, like varroa, 'healthy'.

    If you've got a parasite, you're not healthy.

    Why did the NJ bee inspector tell the OP that he'd have to treat for varroa?

    Because they're likely to become contaminated.

    'Over treating for pathegens produces resistent pathegens.'

    Who said anything about over treating? I said that you should have treatment logs/receipts ready if you are transporting bees across state lines or selling them.

    It isn't the same thing.

    WPG:

    If you're going to call someone ignorant, please spell RESISTANT and PATHOGENS correctly.

    PS: I don't 'treat' either.

  13. #93
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    Dec 2005
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    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    ROTFLOL!

    You're advocating calling bees that are carrying a parasite, like varroa, 'healthy'.

    If you've got a parasite, you're not healthy.

    Why did the NJ bee inspector tell the OP that he'd have to treat for varroa?

    Because they're likely to become contaminated.
    Did I say that? Show me where I said they were healthy? Because I didn't. I told you how mites in a colony of bees does not make them unacceptable for interstate transport. Probably because we are all generally speaking infested so keeping infested hives from moving across State lines is impractical.

    I didn't hear what the Apiary Inspector told the OPer. I wasn't there. Neither were you. So, your perspective is that the Inspector told the beekeeper to treat. My perspective is that the Inspector recommended treating. See the difference? Same reason, different approach. Yes, they are likely to become infested. Or as you put it contaminated.

    Though I would advocate that contamination is not the right word when refering to a pest. Infestation is the better word.

    Tell me, if your dog has fleas, is it sick? Or if it has some ticks on it, is it sick? Is it healthy, but infested w/ fleas?
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  14. #94
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    Apr 2008
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    Leominster, MA USA
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    165

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    ....someone want to offer a definition of health....certainly we wouldn't consider "the boy in the bubble" healthy, even if he were free of all infection.
    Deknow

  15. #95
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    New York City, NY
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    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    I have treatment free bees (peppermint essential oils).

    I have seen evidence of DWV.

    No, I haven't seen any mites.

    Are they healthy?

    They seem to be O.K., but I wouldn't call them healthy.

    We need another word.

    They aren't even asymptomatic anymore.

    Do you understand why the inspector said what he did?

    I'm not sure if I can say that any honeybees are 'healthy'.

    I know too much.

  16. #96
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    Jul 2006
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    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    3,426

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    WLC, I believe that you are.the one.that introduced the concept of "healthy" to the discussion....yet I have no idea what you think healthy is. The boy in the bubble is an extreme example of "germ free"....certainly not healthy. ...and you seem to claim that the presence of pathogenic organisms makes one unhealthy. So, what is health? Can you offer a single example of a healthy organism? Is the staph bacteria on your skin a pathogen? Would you be healthier without it?

    Deknow

  17. #97
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    Jul 2006
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    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    I have treatment free bees (peppermint essential oils).
    Your treatment free bees are treated with pepperment essential oils........so they are treated bees, no?
    Deknow

  18. #98
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pike, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    296

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    I'm with Mark on this one. If an inspector were to notice high mite levels, he would recommend that the beekeeper consider treatment for varroa or start looking at having a plan. It has been my experience that as an inspector you don't want to tell someone how to manage there hives, doing so could put you in a delicate situation. Making recommendations has to also be considered a sensative topic unless one is asked for

  19. #99
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Stilwell, KS
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    1,578

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Dewey View Post
    And not approved for use as a miticide in the US. Beekeepers seem to share the general populations fascination with the chemical industry as we search for a product that will kill mites and leave bees alive
    I definitely have a fascination with oxalic acid because it is a product that kills mites and leave the bees alone. I am non-commercial so not being approved is not an issue.

    I dont know anything about cleaning the top bars with OA (I build a vaporiser), but I would be willing to bet that it works about a good as putting peppermint drops in you hive.
    Honey Badger Don't Care ಠ_ಠ ~=[,,_,,]:3

  20. #100
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
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    9,196

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nabber86 View Post
    oxalic acid because it is a product that kills mites and leave the bees alone.
    I don't understand how an acid that has this in the MSDS,

    "May be fatal if inhaled, swallowed or absorbed thru the skin Avoid all contact. Use with adequate ventilation."

    can leave/have no effect on the bees, yet it kills the mites.
    Regards, Barry

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