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Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

44K views 180 replies 40 participants last post by  waynesgarden 
#1 ·
I sent an e-mail to the state bee inspector saying that if they would be in the area would they mind stopping by and checking out my hive to make sure I was doing everything properly and that my hive was clean of any issues.

It went good, the guy was very nice and informative, he taught me a few things and showed me a few things about my hive. everything is looking fine in the hive.

I am very happy with the way everything went. The only thing that I was a little concerned about was he asked my if I was planning on medicating. Personally, I am all down for organic, natural, let em bee, however if there is something that is wrong then I will treat them as necessary. I said I would only medicate if they need it. He told me that there was no doubt that they would need to be medicated for mites and I pretty much have no choice.

Is this true ???

What is the best brand of mite treatment. Maybe one with the least impact??? Organic???

Thanks guys.
 
#123 ·
'How would you describe the state of health of apis dorsata, the original host of varroa jacobsonii. '

If you've got a parasite, you're not 'healthy'.

There's always a metabolic penalty for harboring parasites, even if they don't kill the host.

Besides, Apis mellifera's parasite, Varroa destructor, has a bunch of viral 'parasites' of its own.

Those viruses are what many believe, myself included, cause the real damage to the colony.

Let's not forget the link between varroa, viruses, nosema, and CCD.

I personally believe that a molecular parasite (a parasite, of a parasite, of a parasite!) is at large.

What's the real culprit? Globalization.
 
#126 · (Edited)
You mean symbiosis.

A true symbiont is actually a metabolic multiplier. It decreases the metabolic cost to the host of 'whatever'.

In terms of beekeeping, you want fewer parasites, and more symbionts.

Apis cerana has a symbiont that reduces the presence of Varroa destructor. It's a strain of Serratia marcescens.

Let me look for the reference again.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20153333
 
#128 ·
hpm:

Do you remember that bioceramic hive project? Unfortunately, we've had repeated problems with the releasing agent (but, I'll get back to it soon enough).

The idea of using a phosphate based cement for the hive body was to provide for a growth medium for symbionts.

Of course, the symbionts would ideally attack pests and parasites while being beneficial to the bees (but, we don't know what will happen).

Alot of treatment free beekeeping is about preserving the symbiotic microflora of the hive.

At least, that's how I view it. I'm not too crazy about the peppermint candy I'm using for that reason (but, I needed another layer of protection that would be the least onerous.). It's a compromise.
 
#131 ·
Ace.. have you ever been visited by a bee inspector?

Here in NC... I am told what problems are seen, only if I ask what my options are will I be told their opinion. If I ask for a recommendation... I will get one... but I have to ask. I wonder if the OP asked?
 
#133 ·
We have inspectors because we are in the blue berries and some owners (blue berry farmers) request that the hives be inspected and a report made back to them on their quality.

Pathologically they know more than I and I find what they say to be interesting. But I don't always agree with some of there methods.... mainly I wish they would do mite counts to confirm some of their opinions.

Mark has also inspected my hives.... he is much quicker and draws mostly the same opinions in much less time plus he does mite counts.

I can learn from both the bee inspectors (I had 5 of them) as well as Mark.
 
#134 ·
Acebird wrote:

f there is any assuming on my part it would be that a state inspector would have a commercial background and his advice for mites would be to medicate. I don't think I am wrong on that.

You may be correct, you may be wrong., The point is that the inspector does not have the time to walk an inexperienced beekeeper thru the treatment free regiment. As expressed by others, it is a good way to keep your package provider well fed. It is much easier for the inexperienced to take the safest route (medication) for a short period untill they have the skills to go treatment free. Ask Mr. Bush, he did arrive at his condition in a year or two.

What does not help is when some claim to be "treatment free", and then fail to reveal that they either use a miticide, that to them, is not a treatment, or fail to reveal that they are buying a disproportional number of replacement bees every spring, because "I purchased bees where not treatment free" or other reason.

I believe the inspector did the right thing. The inspected(beekeeper) has a choice, deal with the mites and other pathogens in a manner of his choosing, or most likely buy more bees next spring.

Crazy Roland


Crazy Roland
 
#135 ·
It is much easier for the inexperienced to take the safest route (medication) for a short period untill they have the skills to go treatment free. Ask Mr. Bush, he did arrive at his condition in a year or two.
Why does everything have to be easy? I feel you get a much more sense of accomplishment if a task is difficult. This road you and others are suggesting is like learning how to put up siding before you paint your house. Although I do know some people that have tore off siding and either painted or gone natural I have never heard of it happening if they themselves put up the siding.
To encourage someone to medicate means the newbie will learn nothing towards his goal. Most hobbyist are not looking at the bottom line. Their goals are completely different than someone that is. Colonies die treated or not.
It is pretty dang obvious that queen breeders are supporting commercial beekeepers not hobbyist. Their businesses would dry up in a heartbeat if it were not for commercial beekeepers. If there is anybody on a treadmill it is the commercial people who are medicating their hives. I hate to see a newbie that wants to try chemical free get sucked into that treadmill that you can't get off once on it. The idea of taking the easy way first will decrease their chance of success. You can't succeed at anything if you are not motivated.
 
#136 ·
This road you and others are suggesting is like learning how to put up siding before you paint your house.

It is easier to paint it when it is on the house.

To encourage someone to medicate means the newbie will learn nothing towards his goal.

If there goal is to kill their bees, then that is true.

It is pretty dang obvious that queen breeders are supporting commercial beekeepers not hobbyist.

And here I thought it was the commercial beekeeper that supported the queen breeders.

I hate to see a newbie that wants to try chemical free get sucked into that treadmill that you can't get off once on it.

With annual comb replacement, I do not see the treadmill. Where is it?

I feel you get a much more sense of accomplishment if a task is difficult.

See, getting off the treadmill would make it more rewarding, especially since treating for mites(chemically or not), they have a better chance of their hive surviving, unless you believe that mites do not kill bees.

Crazy Roland
 
#138 ·
unless you believe that mites do not kill bees.

Crazy Roland
I believe that mites are the vehicle that weakens the bee and allows viruses and bacteria to enter the wounds they make. I think that bees can build resistance to the viruses and bacteria that enter the wounds over time and may even develop other defenses against the mite itself. Chemically treating the hive makes the bees dependent on the treatment AND ALSO weakens the the colony because the chemicals are NOT mite specific. There will always be side effects to any chemical treatment including the drugs that humans take.

The bees that I purchased were treated before I got them but I have never treated them since I had them. I know accidents do happen but twice now I have had a hive make it through the winter and come out like gang busters the second year. So without doing anything my bees have lived two years. How come? Aren't they suppose to die? It is not guaranteed that they will die if you don't treat. If they don't die multiply them. If they do die say good by. What is the big deal?
 
#137 ·
Hey Waterbird! How's it going? Ya simply gotta love it. :gh:
I'm treatment free, have been since restarting in 2006. I have hives 6 years old, with no treatments, and no mite counts. Which annoys some folks no end. I also buy from treatment free sources, and if I find out they treat their bees, I don't buy them. I want the breeder to pay the cost of me going treatment free, not me.

Now, to your specific situation and question. Most beekeepers who go treatment free have hives that crash, because they do not obtain bonafide treatment free bees. Check out B. Weaver's and R Russell's web sites. What your inspector knows is that if your bees were ever treated, or came from a source that treated, and you do not treat, they will crash...it is simply a matter of time. Of course there are exceptions to that rule, but exceptions get expensive.

A reply you can make to an inspector who suggests treatments is to say, hopefully honestly, "I have treatment free bees." At this point, if your bees do not come from a treatment free source, and you want to truly be treatment free, I'd suggest three things:
First, read the Treatment Free threads on this forum.
Second, read the web sites of breeders who advertise treatment free.
Third, plan to requeen next year (or sooner, as the mood hits you) with a bonafide treatment free queen.

Several of us have great success doing this, and you can too. Best wishes to you!
Regards,
Steven
 
#139 ·
.

Stop guessing and know for sure if chemicals are in your hive


Dr. Maryann Frazier at Penn State received funding from Project Apis mellifera (PAm) to run pesticide samples for interested beekeepers at a 50% discount of $80 for each samples for miticides or $142 per sample for the full screen of 171 pesticides, compared to $160 for miticides or $284 for the full 171 pesticide analysis without the cost-share. Beekeepers can send samples of wax, pollen, adult bees, brood, or nectar for analysis. In two to three weeks after the samples are sent in, the beekeeper will be provided with a report of the pesticides in samples, along with information about how those levels compare to the rest of the country. All the data generated will be stored in a large and confidential database at Penn State.

If you are interested in participating, contact Maryann .
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding the testing info I posted just above, Maryann Frazier sent to me a WORD document on how to submit your samples for testing.

I don't see a method for attaching documents to these forums, so if anyone wants to have a copy emailed to them, send me a message and I will forward right over to you. Please include your email, of course.
 
#146 ·
The general rule of thumb I've read is that if a hive makes it three years without treatments, the odds are the bees are survivors. As stated, most hives will go two years before succumbing to the mites, sans treatments. Some as reported, won't even make it that long.

That is why those reported being treatment free speak of hives 4 and more years along in the process, treatment free.
Regards,
Steven
 
#147 ·
Ditto the BushMan. I've been keeping bees for 12 years. I medicated the first year, then thought it was ridiculous the money and the risk. Have always run screen bottom boards. That hive went great and created new ones for several years until I made a couple mistakes. Started over with feral bees from a cutout. Haven't lost a single one, any winter for the last several years. Never use any treatment. I don't get a ton of honey (only 25 gallons off of 5 hives last year) but I get enough. ;) I get rid of mean hives (had my first one this year) and weak hives (kill the queen and combine) I rotate my oldest wax out, and will feed sugar water to give them a boost, but I limit even that to only when I feel its close to emergency situations. I run double deep broods on screened bottom boards with 1/6 screen and oil trays.

Rob
www.mongrelbees.com
 
#153 ·
I was being funny. There are some beeks that believe if you don't treat, the mites weaken the hives and they can't produce enough. I just don't get some beeks, and they're on this forum. Every year they buy medication, and prophalactically treat their hives. I wonder how many normal beeks with over 10 hives ever keep a control group just to see if the medication really helps or hurts. Here's one for you: The bees allow the yeasts to ferment naturally. Well, when we load the bees up with antifungals and antibacterials, the bee bread can't be broken by natural enzymes. As a result, it's not as bio-available for the brood. Just try feeding a human baby steak and potatoes and regular cow's milk. He may not starve, but he also may not perform to his potential. All the building blocks are there, but not in a way that can be used.

Sorry if all this has been hashed over again in the forums, I just don't have the time to read them, but I'm making the time lately just to see what's out there.

I have 10 and starting some 8 frame Langstroths, and a couple top bar hives. Thinking about making some Warre hives, and I believe I have the best looking observation hive out there. I have been keeping bees for 12 years, so... in about another 400 years I might know everything I need to know.

My bees all come from cutouts and trapouts. Some are great, some not so much. However, I think if you survey the guys that keep bees naturally, and those that medicate, us natural guys are happier. Plus, I don't have to spend all that money on chemicals. And one more thing. The same guys that make your mitecides are the ones that make the neonicotinoids that are probably the biggest killers of bees out there. You really want to vote with your dollar that way?
 
#150 ·
We don't really know what the Inspector said, only what the OPer has reported, which may or may not be accurate. Did the Inspector say medicate or treat, for instance.

A decent well informed Apiary Inspector should, if asked, be able to give a range of techniques and materials or management plans or alternatives to addressing Varroa mites, as well as other maladies of bees.
 
#152 ·
If I remember correctly, the OP called the inspector in to take a look.

One thing you don't want to do is call in an inspector, and then ignore their advice.

If you don't treat and your bees croak, don't bother the guy by calling him in.

Just buy new bees.
 
#154 ·
So, are you going to keep a treated control group to see if not treating really helps?

I tried not treating. Lost 600 out of 700. Whatever that percentage is. This Spring I had 88% survive. I think I will keep doing what I see working.
 
#156 ·
I tried not treating. Lost 600 out of 700.
What did you do with the hundred that survived? Are they part of the reason that you have 88% survival now? If you were medicating all along and then stop for a "trial" you are going to lose those that are dependent on the medication. That is what you are proving in your trial.

The comparison you are looking for is a group of bees that never have been medicated compared to bees that always have been medicated. What do those two numbers say? This data has been stated on this forum more than once because there are beekeepers that have not medicated for long periods of time. So either you believe the people that are reporting what they have done or you think they are all lying for some unknown reason.

To me what they are saying makes sense. It follows everything I know about medications.
 
#161 ·
Herb: I have only used it in the late summer, early fall time period (followed by an October oxalic dribble) primarily because our counts have been so low in the spring and I fear the odor might affect a small nuc trying to get a queen mated. That makes late May and early June our only pre-honey flow window and I just havent seen the mite numbers to justify using it nor do I feel comfortable installing them at the same time we are putting on honey supers for fear of odor residue.
 
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