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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Hudson, WI USA
    Posts
    2,268

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Waterbird, back to the question in hand and the overwhelming responses. It is tricky at first to try to sort out what will work. One tip I have is to sort the responses I get to questions by region. Beekeeping is a little like Real Estate: location, location, location. If you have a lot of responses to advice you have sought and are stuck between choices go for the one that comes from a beekeeper in your region.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,274

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Make it politically acceptable.
    There ya go. What does politics have to do w/ anything?

    When have I ever told anyone to medicate? I use mite treatments and, if asked, advise on how to use them using my experience. As an Inspector I was prevented from making management recommendations. It was against Policy. I don't use, nor recommend the use of, TM or Tylosin, profolactic treatments for prevention of AFB. Those that use them I don't condemn either.

    When have I ever slashed and burned, whatever that means?

    I have a degree from OSU/ATI in Commercial Beekeeping, an Associates Degree. Which I got before becoming an Apiary Inspector. But, it did not make me a Commercial Beekeeper. I made myself a Commercial Beekeeper by buildiung my business over the years, while being an Apiary Inspector. Working along side Commercial Beekeepers who I respect from time to time. While also spending 40 hours per week serving beekeepers by checking their hives for pests and diseases of honeybees. Giving workshops on identification of AFB and how to handle it when found.

    To say someone like my self and my fellow current and former Apiary Inspectors know no other way is insulting, as if we are androids or something, unable to think for ourselves taking in information as it develops and incorporating it into our knowledge base.

    Mostly I would like to say that you have opinions not based on facts. Something so often true amungst internet "experts". I have said it many times, you are brand new at beekeeping. Give it some time. Learn and experience before you open your mouth.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  3. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    He told me that there was no doubt that they would need to be medicated for mites and I pretty much have no choice.
    Is this true ???
    What is the best brand of mite treatment. Maybe one with the least impact??? Organic???
    If you're not doing anything commercial with the bees, than you do have a choice. Otherwise you need to use standard practices for the paperwork.

    For example:

    You could use VSH queens.

    You could also use a natural comb or small cell approach.

    You could use essential oils (I have peppermint candy drops on hand because it's easier).

    Most importantly, you can allow your hives to go queenless by splitting, etc., to break the brood cycle and knock down mite levels.

    You can use all of the above.

    In short, you aren't helpless against mites, even if you aren't 'treating'.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    moravia,ny
    Posts
    1,259

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    wlc what are standard practices for paper work. maybe a nyc thing? all of the items you listed can be used by commercial guys.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    When I say paperwork, you'll likely need to provide proof of due diligence when moving hives/bees across state lines. Proof of treatment for AFB, nosema, mites would be wise.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    moravia,ny
    Posts
    1,259

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    not required. been moving bees across state lines for 40 yrs. In nys the state inspects a percentage of your bees and give you a permit for the state your going to. pretty simple.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    I take it that you have also been treating for AFB, etc., for many years.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,274

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    Proof of treatment for AFB, nosema, mites would be wise.
    I have never know this to be required.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  9. #49
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,274

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    I take it that you have also been treating for AFB, etc., for many years.
    I thought you were an intelligent enough person to not assume anything. Or did you mean to place a question mark at the end of that sentence?
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    moravia,ny
    Posts
    1,259

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    we dust 1 time in the fall with tm. we take the bees south in dec so that the mite cycle is broken. we have not treated for mites in two years. we are not treatment free. If they show signs of a high mite drop we would use a soft treatment. after two years we watch them real close. maybe your thoughts of commercial guys is they feed drugs all the time. very few commercial beekeepers fit this profile. also you said treat for afb. If it is found it is burned but we have not had a case in over 20 yrs.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Why would NYS bee inspectors allow a beekeeper to move 'untreated' hives across state lines by providing them paperwork?

    Or, maybe, it just goes to show that the system is broken.

    NYS should allow beekeepers to self certify if there is no requirement for proof of treatment to get paperwork for moving hives across state lines.

    Otherwise, it's just a waste of time.

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    6,127

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Ace your statement was not polically incorrect, nor was I offended by it cos I hear similar from brand new beeks who don't know anything yet all the time, I'm quite used to it. But the statement was just plain wrong.

    You've asked us to educate you. Too much work I'm afraid, but let me ask you this. Since commercial beeks are trained in slash and burn and know no other way, educate me. What is it you know about bees, that they don't know?
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    moravia,ny
    Posts
    1,259

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    why would you treat a healthy hive? when I inspected for nys we had to inspect 100% of the hives. now something like 20% of hives are inspected before issuing a permit. the whole system is broke. the inspection money should go to clubs for education for new beekeepers. a commercial guy making a living off bees is not a source of afb. new beginners buying used equip is the main source. I have burned a lot of commercial bees due to a local beginner.

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Why would you treat a 'healthy' hive?

    There's no way that anyone can say a hive is healthy just by looking. Spores from bee pathogens are almost certainly in every hive out there. Viruses and other bee pathogens/pests are firmly established in the environment itself.

    You treat according to a calendar not because it's a sure thing.

    You do it because that's the only way to assure others of due dilligence.

    But, I think that because of budget cuts, etc., it makes alot more sense to allow for self certification. Better yet, just chuck the whole requirement and allow for the free movement of bees.

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    moravia,ny
    Posts
    1,259

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    there must be something in the nyc water. I give up.

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New York City, NY
    Posts
    4,317

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    There's must be something wrong with your water. Our water is just fine.

    Look at it this way, if I was a commercial guy that wanted to buy nucs from someone, I'd ask for treatment information/logs.

    That's due dilligence.

    I've managed a business for 2 decades, so I do know what it means.

    If they don't treat for AFB, nosema, mites, etc., I'd pass on em. There's too much money involved.

    Inspectors should look at it the same way. There's too much at stake. But, that's not the way it is in NYS.

    The OP in Jersey may be in a different situation. NJ inspectors may have more authority.

    But, I don't know that for a fact.

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    2,812

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    You hit the nail on the head.

    For all you drinking the "treatment free" coolaid(and we do not use chemicals to treat for mites), be aware that I earned the "crazy" moniker for predicting that there will be only commercial treatment free beekeepers in a decade or so. It is not mites that are killing the bees, they are just a vector. There is nothing that can be done cheaply, other than with chemicals, to treat what is actually killing them.

    Crazy Roland

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Stilwell, KS
    Posts
    1,918

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Quote Originally Posted by Waterbird17 View Post
    II said I would only medicate if they need it. He told me that there was no doubt that they would need to be medicated for mites and I pretty much have no choice.

    Is this true ???

    What is the best brand of mite treatment. Maybe one with the least impact??? Organic???

    Thanks guys.
    Oxalic Acid. Simple, cheap, organic, very effective, and benign.
    Honey Badger Don't Care ಠ_ಠ ~=[,,_,,]:3

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Indiana, Clay County
    Posts
    572

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    I second cleaning your frame top bars with wood bleach it works

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,274

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    Why would NYS bee inspectors allow a beekeeper to move 'untreated' hives across state lines by providing them paperwork?

    Or, maybe, it just goes to show that the system is broken.

    NYS should allow beekeepers to self certify if there is no requirement for proof of treatment to get paperwork for moving hives across state lines.

    Otherwise, it's just a waste of time.
    Do you think beekeepers should be required to treat their hives for diseases and pests? Or do you think beekeepers traveling from one State to another should beshown to have maintained a certain level of healthy colonies of bees?

    When moving colonies of honeybees across State lines, the State of origin is supposed to Inspect a beekeepers colonies to assure the health of those colonies. This is done by inspection of the colonies to determine whether those things which States regulates are in compliance. That being, whether colonies are or are not infected w/ AFB. No one demands that colonies be treated, just that the disease isn't visibly present.

    Some States require that loads of bees be free of fireants. California, for example. Small hive beetle is regulated by some States. Some States don't allow any comb to be brought into the State. Alabama I believe. At one time semi loads of beehives were not allowed to stop in NC, or else they were burned. Supposedly.

    I do know that at one time beehives traveling through NC were required to be double netted. I know someone who had to turn back to SC and get a second set of nets before he could go North again. NC is hard to get around.

    So, I don't see what your hang up is about treating. Being healthy and treating are not the same thing. Though, one could maintain the other I guess. Isn't being healthy better?
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



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