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Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

44K views 180 replies 40 participants last post by  waynesgarden 
#1 ·
I sent an e-mail to the state bee inspector saying that if they would be in the area would they mind stopping by and checking out my hive to make sure I was doing everything properly and that my hive was clean of any issues.

It went good, the guy was very nice and informative, he taught me a few things and showed me a few things about my hive. everything is looking fine in the hive.

I am very happy with the way everything went. The only thing that I was a little concerned about was he asked my if I was planning on medicating. Personally, I am all down for organic, natural, let em bee, however if there is something that is wrong then I will treat them as necessary. I said I would only medicate if they need it. He told me that there was no doubt that they would need to be medicated for mites and I pretty much have no choice.

Is this true ???

What is the best brand of mite treatment. Maybe one with the least impact??? Organic???

Thanks guys.
 
#41 ·
Waterbird, back to the question in hand and the overwhelming responses. It is tricky at first to try to sort out what will work. One tip I have is to sort the responses I get to questions by region. Beekeeping is a little like Real Estate: location, location, location. If you have a lot of responses to advice you have sought and are stuck between choices go for the one that comes from a beekeeper in your region.
 
#43 ·
He told me that there was no doubt that they would need to be medicated for mites and I pretty much have no choice.
Is this true ???
What is the best brand of mite treatment. Maybe one with the least impact??? Organic???
If you're not doing anything commercial with the bees, than you do have a choice. Otherwise you need to use standard practices for the paperwork.

For example:

You could use VSH queens.

You could also use a natural comb or small cell approach.

You could use essential oils (I have peppermint candy drops on hand because it's easier).

Most importantly, you can allow your hives to go queenless by splitting, etc., to break the brood cycle and knock down mite levels.

You can use all of the above.

In short, you aren't helpless against mites, even if you aren't 'treating'.
 
#50 ·
we dust 1 time in the fall with tm. we take the bees south in dec so that the mite cycle is broken. we have not treated for mites in two years. we are not treatment free. If they show signs of a high mite drop we would use a soft treatment. after two years we watch them real close. maybe your thoughts of commercial guys is they feed drugs all the time. very few commercial beekeepers fit this profile. also you said treat for afb. If it is found it is burned but we have not had a case in over 20 yrs.
 
#51 ·
Why would NYS bee inspectors allow a beekeeper to move 'untreated' hives across state lines by providing them paperwork?

Or, maybe, it just goes to show that the system is broken.

NYS should allow beekeepers to self certify if there is no requirement for proof of treatment to get paperwork for moving hives across state lines.

Otherwise, it's just a waste of time.
 
#60 ·
Do you think beekeepers should be required to treat their hives for diseases and pests? Or do you think beekeepers traveling from one State to another should beshown to have maintained a certain level of healthy colonies of bees?

When moving colonies of honeybees across State lines, the State of origin is supposed to Inspect a beekeepers colonies to assure the health of those colonies. This is done by inspection of the colonies to determine whether those things which States regulates are in compliance. That being, whether colonies are or are not infected w/ AFB. No one demands that colonies be treated, just that the disease isn't visibly present.

Some States require that loads of bees be free of fireants. California, for example. Small hive beetle is regulated by some States. Some States don't allow any comb to be brought into the State. Alabama I believe. At one time semi loads of beehives were not allowed to stop in NC, or else they were burned. Supposedly.

I do know that at one time beehives traveling through NC were required to be double netted. I know someone who had to turn back to SC and get a second set of nets before he could go North again. NC is hard to get around.

So, I don't see what your hang up is about treating. Being healthy and treating are not the same thing. Though, one could maintain the other I guess. Isn't being healthy better?
 
#52 ·
Ace your statement was not polically incorrect, nor was I offended by it cos I hear similar from brand new beeks who don't know anything yet all the time, I'm quite used to it. But the statement was just plain wrong.

You've asked us to educate you. Too much work I'm afraid, but let me ask you this. Since commercial beeks are trained in slash and burn and know no other way, educate me. What is it you know about bees, that they don't know?
 
#66 ·
What is it you know about bees, that they don't know?
Part of knowing is believing and logical thinking. "They" may know that chemical treatments will not work in the long run but they don't want to believe it because of the economics. I am not saying I wouldn't do the same in their shoes but I am not in their shoes and there are a lot of beekeepers who are not in their shoes.

To give you a direct answer to what I know about bees vs. "they" is simple: They know everything and I know nothing. I expect to learn a little more but as the scale goes I don't believe I will know much above nothing compared to what they know. If it is too much work on your part to change that I understand.

Mark, if you take prescription drugs to control your blood pressure and cholesterol do you appear healthy? Are you? What about having surgery to control your weight, do you look healthy? Are you? It really is difficult to tell health by appearance alone.
 
#53 ·
why would you treat a healthy hive? when I inspected for nys we had to inspect 100% of the hives. now something like 20% of hives are inspected before issuing a permit. the whole system is broke. the inspection money should go to clubs for education for new beekeepers. a commercial guy making a living off bees is not a source of afb. new beginners buying used equip is the main source. I have burned a lot of commercial bees due to a local beginner.
 
#54 ·
Why would you treat a 'healthy' hive?

There's no way that anyone can say a hive is healthy just by looking. Spores from bee pathogens are almost certainly in every hive out there. Viruses and other bee pathogens/pests are firmly established in the environment itself.

You treat according to a calendar not because it's a sure thing.

You do it because that's the only way to assure others of due dilligence.

But, I think that because of budget cuts, etc., it makes alot more sense to allow for self certification. Better yet, just chuck the whole requirement and allow for the free movement of bees.
 
#61 ·
There's no way that anyone can say a hive is healthy just by looking.

You treat according to a calendar not because it's a sure thing.

Better yet, just chuck the whole requirement and allow for the free movement of bees.
To the best of our ability, yes we can. Otherwise, no one would be able to sell bees to anyone else unless they were medicated and treated under supervision of some sort of inspector. Totally rediculous, expensive and unnecassary.

There is no way anyone can say a hive is healthy? Then there must also be no way to say you or I are healthy. Maybe we are, maybe we aren't. But we appear so, for the most part. Yet we carry pathogens.

"You treat according to a calendar not because it's a sure thing."? Do you do so? How do you explain those who do treat and still come down w/ AFB? Are the rest of their hives unhealthy also, being in proximity of each other at one time or another?

"self certification"? Pretty much what we have in the East now anyway. NYS is required to inspect and certify the health of bees traveling to other States. They do that by inspecting 10% of what a beekeeper says he is transporting. If I look at only 10% of the colonies in an Apiary, what are the chances of finding a diseased colony? Pretty slim. How about 40 out of 400?

So, being as it is my livelihood, I burn any cases of AFB I find. I also challenge anyone to find any AFB in my outfit. I would appreciate and benefit from a thourough inspection. NYS can't afford to do it.
 
#56 ·
There's must be something wrong with your water. Our water is just fine.

Look at it this way, if I was a commercial guy that wanted to buy nucs from someone, I'd ask for treatment information/logs.

That's due dilligence.

I've managed a business for 2 decades, so I do know what it means.

If they don't treat for AFB, nosema, mites, etc., I'd pass on em. There's too much money involved.

Inspectors should look at it the same way. There's too much at stake. But, that's not the way it is in NYS.

The OP in Jersey may be in a different situation. NJ inspectors may have more authority.

But, I don't know that for a fact.
 
#57 ·
You hit the nail on the head.

For all you drinking the "treatment free" coolaid(and we do not use chemicals to treat for mites), be aware that I earned the "crazy" moniker for predicting that there will be only commercial treatment free beekeepers in a decade or so. It is not mites that are killing the bees, they are just a vector. There is nothing that can be done cheaply, other than with chemicals, to treat what is actually killing them.

Crazy Roland
 
#58 ·
II said I would only medicate if they need it. He told me that there was no doubt that they would need to be medicated for mites and I pretty much have no choice.

Is this true ???

What is the best brand of mite treatment. Maybe one with the least impact??? Organic???

Thanks guys.
Oxalic Acid. Simple, cheap, organic, very effective, and benign.
 
#63 ·
spunky said:
I second cleaning your frame top bars with wood bleach it works
And not approved for use as a miticide in the US. The cleaning your frame top bars "claim" is ultra transparent and doesn't pass the smell test.

Beekeepers seem to share the general populations fascination with the chemical industry as we search for a product that will kill mites and leave bees alive. And then we wonder why there are increased regulations aimed at keeping honey pure.
 
#64 ·
I said I would only medicate if they need it. He told me that there was no doubt that they would need to be medicated for mites and I pretty much have no choice.

Is this true ???

Thanks guys.
Is that what he said? He didn't mean you were required to treat for mites, did he? Of course you have a choice. You always have a choice. Choosing to go along w/ what someone recommends, or not, is a choice. I doubt that NJ REQUIRES you to treat your colony(s) for mites. Mites have never been requlated by Apiary Inspection Programs. You can have as many as you want. NYS has never required mite treatment, I doubt NJ does either.

MiteAway Quick Strips (aka MAQS) are supposed to work well. A formic acid product which can be used anytime temps are adequate. Pretty much "organic".
 
#71 ·
"Otherwise, no one would be able to sell bees to anyone else unless they were medicated and treated under supervision of some sort of inspector. Totally rediculous, expensive and unnecassary."

That's not accurate.

If you're selling over $10,000 worth of bees, it's a small matter to show the buyer your receipts and treatment logs.

Ditto for an inspector when obtaining paperwork to transport across state lines.

It's certainly not ridiculous to ask for that kind of information as a buyer. You'd need to know that information to determine for what and when you may need to treat. Or, if you even want to do business with that outfit in the first place.

The NJ inspector leaned on the OP because he is probably sick and tired of getting calls saying, "My bees are lousy with mites, help."

My interpretation is that that the OP didn't have a satisfactory answer for the inspector on how they are mitigating pests and pathogens in their hives.

"VSH, essential oils, and splitting." would have been a more satisfactory answer.

Anything would have been better than simply saying, "I don't treat."
 
#72 ·
It's pretty easy to pick up some peppermint candy drops at the local store, and put a few into your hive(s).

Then you can say, "I use essential oils."

I think that the bees are 'happier' when I give them peppermint. :)

As for the usual suspects, they do go off on tangents.
 
#74 ·
It went good, the guy was very nice and informative, he taught me a few things and showed me a few things about my hive. everything is looking fine in the hive.

I am very happy with the way everything went.

I said I would only medicate if they need it. He told me that there was no doubt that they would need to be medicated for mites and I pretty much have no choice.

Is this true ???

What is the best brand of mite treatment. Maybe one with the least impact??? Organic???

Thanks guys.
WB, Welcome to beekeeping, you got good sound advice for NJ bees. Varroa is a very real fact. Mites make bees weak and die young. Everything was going cool with the visit, then the retching [sic] began when "organics" was introduced to your beekeeping. It sounds like if you had mites you might take actons to treat for them. I hope that you will take the time to learn how to detect the mite level that your bees have.

Left untreated and given ample food for winter I would say there is a 90% chance of 1st year survival.
After that, into the second year, with the mite build up and far too many variables to detail in a paragraph, your chances of hive survival will diminish significantly.

I have found Apigaurd, Apilife-Var and MAQS all will work if applied "correctly". There are also other physical interventions that can be done. All of the above can have minimal impact on the bees compared to a mite infestation. Or, do nothing. The choice will always be yours.

Impact to the beekeeper can be $ignificant. Loss of a nuc or package or an overwintered colony here in NJ can be $80-$125 or more for replacement. Not to mention the value of all the lost time, pollination and honey production.

When with just the use of an old mason jar, some 1/8 screen and confection sugar and less than $12 worth of "treatment" or a few minutes of manipulation can make all the difference in hive survival against mites. Why not? I make choices based on mite population. Some of my bees get no treatment and many more do. I know the risk of not treating but really do try to put the odds in my (and the bees) favor with a wee bit of knowledge.

Good Luck
 
#78 ·
I get the feeling that inspectors often catch attitude when they casually ask what a beekeepers plan is for mites. This is probably most often from new keepers that had equipment installed wrong, weren't comfortable pulling brood for inspector and had a million questions.

Most of the experienced people that claim long term success without chemicals don't strike me as the type to agitate an inspector. They seem to be more likely to be passionate about thier methods and excited to share. At the very least, interested to hear what the inspector is passing out as advise to others.

If an inspector shares his knowledge and suggest chemicals and you don't want to use them don't
If you want to discuss with him be prepared to give a good explanation of your plan, he is probably knowledgable and interested in the bees. A simple thanks for the advise is fine too.
 
#81 ·
Visual inspections are subjective.
And, if you are inspecting only 10% of hives being shipped across state lines, there's also the question of statistical significance.


'There are pathogens all around every living thing waiting for the right conditions.'

That's not what I wrote:

>You can say that they look healthy.
But, at the same time, those bees could be harboring every single pest and pathogen known to beekeeping as 'inapparent' infections.<

Do you understand the difference?
 
#82 ·
Do you understand how things are done? Do you understand that the way things are done are also deemed adequate for the industry to run smoothly and in a healthy state? You seem to want to argue about how you think things should be, but you don't give us any idea of how you think these things should be done, by whom, and what the cost would be and paid by whom. That I surely don't understand.

How to find and recognize AFB in beehives I do undertand. Do you?
 
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