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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    West Milford, NJ, USA
    Posts
    104

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    The NJ Inspector taught the disease and pest portion at my bee keeping class, he's a wonderful teacher, but I did notice a bit of eye rolling and impatience when students asked questions about small cell, regressed bees, TBH's and the like. Choose your own path, lots of bee keepers are doing well with no-treatments. I just bought 2 packages of no treatments bees and the bee keepers told me he had a 90% over winter survival. Thats pretty good no matter what path you choose.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    8,991

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    So, I think it is safe to say that feral hives get occupied by swarms. Those colonies may survive for a number of years, casting off swarms most likely, and then they die. Getting reoccupied the next year or some year after that.
    How different is the cycle for a managed hive under the manipulations of human beings with all their potions? Don't colonies die off and get replaced at a tremendous cost. Why not let nature do it for free.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Washington County, Maine
    Posts
    2,673

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    @Bonnie - You are absolutely correct - choose your own path - but be ready to accept the consequences. We had a mild winter this past year and I'd expect most any knowledgeable beekeeper in the NJ area to have 10% losses. Part of the eye rolling on the part of the inspector is that there are very few individuals who are skilled enough to do well regularly without treatments. No doubt the inspector has seen a lot of dead treatment free bees. There is much romance about treatment free and many folks ignore or don't hear about the losses that go hand in hand with selecting for resistant stock or regressing cell size. While it is not impossible for a back yard beekeeper with two hives to announce they are going to be treatment free with two purchased packages and be successful, it is very likely the bees will be dead before two years have passed. Inspectors get to see lots of people who haven't a clue what they are doing try treatment free only to complain that their bees have died. Now treated bees often die too, but Inspectors tend to have more sympathy for people who recognize the problems they have and attempt to deal with them.

    If your hive succumbs to viruses related to having too many mites and the inspector told you to deal with your mites or the hive would die it is hard to have much sympathy. Too many people think that being treatment free is doing nothing. For those not starting out with genetics known to be treatment free, treatment free is a tough road to follow, and I will be so bold as to say, one not to be undertaken casually.

    As disclosure - I have hives that are treated, Russians that are not, and some newly started hives from packages from B Weaver that will not be treated. I want treatment free to work. I just hate to see beginners make it sound overly simple.
    Last edited by Andrew Dewey; 05-27-2012 at 08:28 AM.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    8,991

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonnie Botkins View Post
    The NJ Inspector taught the disease and pest portion at my bee keeping class,
    You are going to be hard pressed to find a Michael Bush type as a state inspector, yet who would be better qualified? State inspectors are essentially commercial operators that have had slash and burn ingrained into their training.
    Last edited by Acebird; 05-28-2012 at 05:24 AM. Reason: Removed insulting phrase
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Washington County, Maine
    Posts
    2,673

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    You are going to be hard pressed to find a Michael Bush type as a state inspector, yet who would be better qualified? State inspectors are essentially commercial operators that have had slash and burn ingrained into their training. They know no other way.
    If this is what you truly believe I feel sorry for you.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Lakeland, FL USA
    Posts
    777

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Wow, the the similarities between the topics of bee keeping and health/wellness/medicating/vaccinating are astonishing. In fact, I got interested in bee keeping because I run with a group of people who don't believe in vaccinating or using medicines other than emergency situations.

    But the bottom line is, whether or not medications/treatments/vaccinations, etc, "work" for bees and/or humans - the fact remains that we are creating creatures that cannot survive on their own. We are weakening everything and distorting DNA in many cases.

    I have two unvaccinated sons. One is 4 and one is 6. They have zero chronic autoimmune or neurological issues which have become epidemic in children over the past 20 years. They have no allergies, asthma, arthritis, cancer, diabetes, eczema, leaky gut syndrome, crohn's disease, MS, seizures, ear infections, lupus, autism, etc, etc, etc.

    If you ask most people who have kids who are unvaccinated, they will give you the very same testimonial.

    Some of you may say that you were vaxed as a child and you are ‘ok’ - but the vaccination schedule has almost quadrupled since the 80s. Admittedly children are getting other assaults through their sugared/aspartamed/GMO food, fluoride, and other toxins and poisons, but the vaccines are largely responsible for this toxic overload we are now seeing.

    We all realize that emergency medicine is essential and a blessing - but for everyday health issues - go to your pesticide-free, non-GMO garden for your health - not your doctor.

    And for bees, we should also consider the same philosophy, IMHO.

    (OK, I'll stand back and watch the fireworks begin .....cringes)

    .

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    West Milford, NJ, USA
    Posts
    104

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    I did not go into treatment free with rose colored glasses on, and know very well that just stopping the treatments is not the key to success, mite resistant genetics, survival of the fittest, hygenic behaviors are the key. I except and expect some losses, basically good riddence in the gene pool. Really who are we to think we know better than mother nature.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Phoenixville, PA
    Posts
    579

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Smells like the same can of worms.

    IMHO we learn from one year to the next. More accurately, we learn from what we did the year before. After gaining success, embracing change becomes difficult and the methods used must be the best, for everyone. That often leads to incessant and unhelpful bantering.

    I suggest using a comfortable mite count method. Listen to your bees first, then pick and choose guidance that suits your habits.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Phoenixville, PA
    Posts
    579

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Quote Originally Posted by PatBeek View Post
    I have two unvaccinated sons. One is 4 and one is 6. They have zero chronic autoimmune or neurological issues which have become epidemic in children over the past 20 years. They have no allergies, asthma, arthritis, cancer, diabetes, eczema, leaky gut syndrome, crohn's disease, MS, seizures, ear infections, lupus, autism, etc, etc, etc.
    I truly wish you the best and am confident no one will provide better care for your boys than you.

    I've kept bees for about a decade and we ate most of our harvest. Last month my boy got stung by my bee on the top of his head and blew up like a balloon within a half hour. Two hours later we left the ER and now keep EpiPens close. My neighbors are Herbalife advocates along with the natural lifestyle. A virus triggered an autoimmune response in their beautiful eight year old blond boy that swelled his spinal column. After four months in the IC unit and ten months in therapy, he came home with a feeding tube. He now can eat normally, but lost the use of his arm and difficulties continue. My other neighbor raised their children on unpasteurized milk as part of their natural lifestyle. Their girl joined his brother's bio-gas business in Kenya last year. She just busted her hip and leg in a motorcycle accident. Only option there is exploratory surgery. The silver lining is she didn't need a transfusion since most of the people they know there are HIV positive.

    My boys experienced issues in elementary school. After a string of "professionals", an objective study revealed ADD like the nose on your face for three generations of us. Both boys now have fantastic grades, made leaps in social skills and nothing is in their way. Yes, the medicines help.

    Everything requires balance.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Andover, Ohio
    Posts
    165

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    My late great grandmother's old house has had a honeybee hive in the attic in the same spot for at least 40 years and maybe more. I dont know of any swarms that were ever seen coming or going. This is in reference to feral hives not vaccinations. Sorry

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Seneca, sc
    Posts
    830

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Life is all about choices.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Lakeland, FL USA
    Posts
    777

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Quote Originally Posted by scdw43 View Post
    Life is all about choices.
    Amen.

    I'm not here to force my way on anyone and the govt dang sure isn't going to force their "treatments" on my boys or bees.

    Again, emergency medicine in the west can't be beat. But I don't want my kids on an asthma inhalers, eczema medicines or having to buy them Cancer Barbies........it's what works for me and my family. Some people love going to the doctor every week and buying prescriptions. I don't.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    8,991

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Quote Originally Posted by PatBeek View Post
    Some people love going to the doctor every week and buying prescriptions. I don't.
    I am sure nobody likes that but they made previous choices that forced them into it at a later time in their life. Modern medicine is truly a marvel. Too much of a good thing is bad.

    Yes Andrew, I do believe... do you think there are Michael Bush types as state bee inspectors? Are there any that are not or were not involved in commercial operations?
    Last edited by Barry; 05-28-2012 at 10:40 AM. Reason: remove political statement
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,140

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    You are going to be hard pressed to find a Michael Bush type as a state inspector, yet who would be better qualified? State inspectors are essentially commercial operators that have had slash and burn ingrained into their training. They know no other way.
    What do you base this statement on? Slash and burn? What do you mean by that?
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,140

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Why not let nature do it for free.
    Go ahead. Just be sure to be noninterventionist in your approach.

    Aren't you interveneing by splitting as you have been doing?
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  16. #36
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Garland, Bladen County, NC, USA
    Posts
    2,907

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Quote Originally Posted by throrope View Post
    Last month my boy got stung by my bee on the top of his head and blew up like a balloon within a half hour. Two hours later we left the ER and now keep EpiPens close.
    Everything requires balance.
    Pretty normal response... don't you think? Same thing happens to me. It's when they don't swell and airways restrict that you have a problem.
    “Don’t tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.” - The Quran

  17. #37
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Garland, Bladen County, NC, USA
    Posts
    2,907

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    .

    Yes Andrew, I do believe... do you think there are Michael Bush types as state bee inspectors? Are there any that are not or were not involved in commercial operations?
    Our inspectors here in NC do not remind me commercial types at all.... more like academics. All seem tightly aligned with the entomology dept at NCSU. Guess that is a good thing.... I would not mind a commercial guy or two on there.
    “Don’t tell me how educated you are, tell me how much you have travelled.” - The Quran

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,708

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Quote Originally Posted by PatBeek View Post
    I'm not here to force my way on anyone and the govt dang sure isn't going to force their "treatments" on my boys or bees.
    Please be aware the inspector recommended treatment, not required it. This was not the government FORCING anyone to treat their bees, a rather too emotive and inaccurate statement.

    It was an inspector with considerable experience, giving sound advice. The OP can follow it, or not. If not, probably to his cost, although that's not a certainty either.


    And Ace. "State inspectors are essentially commercial operators that have had slash and burn ingrained into their training. They know no other way". I've seen you drop a few humdingers but that one is one of the most uneducated statements I've seen on this forum.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,140

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    You are going to be hard pressed to find a Michael Bush type as a state inspector, yet who would be better qualified? State inspectors are essentially commercial operators that have had slash and burn ingrained into their training. They know no other way.
    Your Mentor was formerly a State Apiary Inspector. I wonder how he would react to such a statement. Other than him and me, how many Apiary Inspectors, or former Apiary Inspectors do you know?

    Whether anyone else saw it this way, I looked on my employment as an Apiary Inspector as doing service to the beekeepers of the State of New York. In most cases I was greeted w/ "Where ya been? I haven't seen an Inspector in ages. There out back. Help yourself, if I can't be there."

    You couldn't afford Michael Bush as an Apiary Inspector. But there were and are those of us who were and are willing to work w/, teach, and show beekeepers what we know and have learned over the years and are even willing to listen to alternative ideas and innane questions for the umpteenth time.

    All I have to give you is myself. If you don't want what I have to give, so be it. Let me know if you change your mind.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    8,991

    Default Re: Got a Visit from the Bee Inspector.

    I don't think I have said anything that either of you should take offense at. Are you both not commercial? Aren't you both in favor of medicating bees? And yes, you were both state inspectors at one time. Isn't that my point?

    I've seen you drop a few humdingers but that one is one of the most uneducated statements I've seen on this forum.
    Please educate me. I value your opinion.

    Maybe I could have said it another way but what isn't untrue about my statement. It would be no different than asking someone that has been involved in big Ag all their life on how to deal with a weed problem. The answer is going to be medicate they know no other way. Please help me on rewording what I said. Make it politically acceptable.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

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