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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,341

    Default Re: Shake out for Laying worker

    >If you aren't trying to "fix" the hive, and have other hives near by, wouldn't shaking them out 100 yards or so away be ok? The workers from the LW hive would fly back, not find their hive, and eventually join one of the neighbor hives, right?

    No need to walk 100 yards, but yes, that's what I would do in an outyard always as it's not worth three trips to put open brood in. It's easier to shake them out (with the hive not there anymore) give the equipment to the other hives and do a split later.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Livermore, CA
    Posts
    1,403

    Default Re: Shake out for Laying worker

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    that's what I would do in an outyard always as it's not worth three trips to put open brood in. It's easier to shake them out (with the hive not there anymore) give the equipment to the other hives and do a split later.
    Which is the dalema I am facing, just easier to shake out the hive than to add a frame of brood each week. I am also letting my other hives build into strong hives for star thistle in a month, so robbing brood from them would be counter productive for me. I was going to make a couple nucs today, but decided to let just things be and deal with what I have, and make splits at the end of the summer like I did last year.
    Coyote Creek Bees

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Seneca, sc
    Posts
    830

    Default Re: Shake out for Laying worker

    I agree shake them out, put boxes on other hives. If you have three frames of brood to spare, to try to stop a laying worker, take those frames of brood and start a nuc you still have the same hive count with a whole lot better chance of success.Once the nuc queen starts laying give her the combs of the laying worker hive. In my opinion a box full of bees without a queen is just that, a box full of bees, that are all going to be dead in 50 days.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,816

    Default Re: Shake out for Laying worker

    Quote Originally Posted by scdw43 View Post
    that are all going to be dead in 50 days.
    I was wondering about that time frame. So if they are not all dead (or most) then there is a pretty good chance that the hive has a legitimate queen?
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,674

    Default Re: Shake out for Laying worker

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    I was wondering about that time frame. So if they are not all dead (or most) then there is a pretty good chance that the hive has a legitimate queen?


    What?
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Lakeland, FL USA
    Posts
    826

    Default Re: Shake out for Laying worker

    Quote Originally Posted by BeeCurious View Post
    What?
    I believe they mean that if the bees are still around after 50 days (workers only live about 6 weeks on average) that there must be a queen in there laying legit worker eggs to perpetuate the colony.

    I am having this same dilemma as we speak.

    I did a cut-out on April 30th and it's been almost 30 days. I still haven't confirmed for sure if they have a queen or not. I don't have other hives, either, to add brood from.

    They are too small a batch to bother getting a queen, etc, even if they don't have one, so I'm just waiting to see what happens.

    There's really no hurry for me to even start trying lift out their comb and see what they have or don't have other than just quenching my curiosity. Sometimes they are better just left alone to sort things out - or not.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,816

    Default Re: Shake out for Laying worker

    I could go in and look but it won't change the fact if there is a queen in there or not. In my case activity is picking up so either the hive is producing dwarf drones that forage or something else is happening. It has been around 45 days for this stack of equipment and bees.

    I don't know what to wish for. I would like to see this experiment work but I am rapidly running out of equipment and I don't want anymore hives.
    On second thought, I know what I will do. I have an organic farmer friend that would like to have a bee hive but not take care of it. If the second split is a go I will move that hive to his place. I made that split on May 20 so I probably shouldn't move it until June 17 right?
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,674

    Default Re: Shake out for Laying worker

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    I made that split on May 20 so I probably shouldn't move it until June 17 right?
    Close it up tonight and move it in the morning.

    Where does this not moving a split notion come from?
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,816

    Default Re: Shake out for Laying worker

    Well if it takes at least 21 days or more before the queen is laying eggs isn't it a good idea to wait?
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Grosse Ile, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,902

    Default Re: Shake out for Laying worker

    I have never had success with adding frames of eggs/larvae to a LW hive, even over a few week period, they just didn't draw cells. The shakeout method has always worked for me, leaving the LW hive on the original stand and putting in a frame of eggs/larvae for the bees to come back to after the shakeout. They raise queens the first try when doing it this way, and no more LW problems. Why shakeouts work for some people and not others is something I can't explain, bees just don't always do what you want from them. John

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Northampton, MA
    Posts
    196

    Default Re: Shake out for Laying worker

    Quote Originally Posted by D Coates View Post
    Carry the hive off 50 to 100 yards. Replace the hive with another queenright hive/nuc. Shake the bees out. As they head back to there old location they end up in a queenright hive and the laying workers stop/are eliminated. I've done it three times and it's always worked for me.
    Ding ding ding ding!

    We have a winner. Divide the queenwrong hive's resources/frames between the other hives in the yard.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    6,021

    Default Re: Shake out for Laying worker

    Quote Originally Posted by jmgi View Post
    I have never had success with adding frames of eggs/larvae to a LW hive, even over a few week period, they just didn't draw cells. The shakeout method has always worked for me
    Hi Jmgi, in such a case there is always the possibility that it was not just laying workers, but that the hive contained an unmated virgin, or even what is sometimes called a "pseudoqueen", which is rare but happens when due to circumstances in the hive usually caused by us, the queen is not raised properly and does not fully develop, it's kind of 1/2 way between a worker and a queen. Such queens can remain in a hive for months and stymy all attempts to requeen, or to encourage cell raising.

    They can also be hard to find or even detect if they are there or not, so a shakeout could help in such cases, but not every time.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

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