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Deformed Wing Virus

27K views 57 replies 23 participants last post by  ky_mike 
#1 ·
I have seen bees outside my hives that have DWV. It's raining today so I was able to get a close look at the front of the hive and saw probably 10 bees walking in front of it with obvious DWV. I have seen bees with it before and have treated about 3 times with powdered sugar. In all of my hive inspections I have not seen a bee on any of the frames inside the hive with deformed wings, but I have seen a few mites, which is why I did the powdered sugar dumps.

My question is do I need to be worried about a few bees with DWV or is it normal?
 
#31 ·
Just a little update on my mite and DWV situation. I'm going into week 3 of treating with Hopguard and the mite drops have really dwindled. I am seeing very few bees with deformed wings and this afternoon when I checked the outside of the hives I did not see any DWV bees. The hives are very active and the amount of dead bees in front of the hives has reduced to near none.

So far I am glad I chose to treat but would still like to have more mite resistant bees. I have already started integrating foundationless frames and I plan on requeening if the mites get back as bad as they were. I also plan to keep better track of the number of mites. I didn't realize how bad they were until I did a mite count with the sticky boards.
 
#32 ·
Ky mike,
did you do any counts during the treatmets? What were they like?
Two years ago, I had some hives much like yours. I had used MA2 but the spring temps were not high enough to fumigate the hive, hence a really poor knock down. About two weeks post treatment, I was noticing the same thing as you in bee health and in mites on a drop test. I chose the flash formic since the flow was only days away and the treatment is overnight. The amount of mites on the boards 24 hours post treatment was so shocking I could not count them. They were one on top of the other.
Not sure where they all hid but, all I can say was what an eye opener. I formic'd July 1. The honey production from these hives was 1/3 of what is normal for our area and compared to the rest of my bee yards. That fall they looked ok, not the greatest but lots of bees. Fed starting Sept 10th and wrapped by October 29th. April 15th... all dead....But please do not read to much into the all dead thing. My guess is I would have lost about 30% to the mites, about 10-15% due to nosema due to the stress they were under and the rest probably would have had some high mite numbers and some high nosema counts and would have needed to be requeend and had the book tossed at them in the way of getting healthy. I know this cause the rest of the hives that survived in the other yards needed that to get better. The rest, my best guess is the flooding and the suffocation from the freezing rain on top of the snow covered hives. Hubby almost had to dig them out with a CAT instead of the 3020 JD loader the snow was so hard.

My point, been there. The moral, like you say, understand your counts. Now the big hurdle you have is not how much honey production you get, but rather getting them healthy and fat enough for winter. Any honey gained will be a bonus.
Next spring, watch out for Nosema Apis and Ceranea. Plan on it being Ceranea. That is what we and other beekeepers in the area saw in the following spring. We had treated with a gallon of syrup, but they would not take it in. So we all drenched the hives. Those that did not get drenched, perished before the flow
 
#34 ·
I have 150 hives. I had a bad mite count in 12 of them. So I put combination of Check Mite strips in the hive and Thymol on the bottom board. Within 30 days, these hives exploded and I had to put another deep on top. I did see the bees were propolizing the thymol bags. Whe I checked or mites, the count was very low at the end of 60 days. This was the first time I had used this combination, and Check Mite alone made signfiicant improvements previously. I dont know if the Thymol had any synergestic effect on the hives or not.
 
#39 ·
So I put combination of Check Mite strips in the hive and Thymol on the bottom board. .
Check Mite !! I don't think that stuff is even legal for mite control, it is Coumaphos and one of the worst things a person can put in a hive. I see it is being sold as a beetle treatment, probably because there is so much of it sitting around that never got purchased after its toxicity got published everywhere. and Thymol needs to be on top not bottom since the vapors are heavier than air it wont be as effective from the bottom MTCW...
 
#35 ·
All is still looking good. I was able to split my main hive into a nuc, I have not seen any bees with deformed wings in about a week now. Prior to treating their were always DWV bees walking around on the ground outside the hives and many dead bees.
 
#36 ·
I opened one of my hives this weekend and found one bee right on top, that was half dead with what looks like deformed wings. I inspected the hives and didnt see any others. I also did a mite count with a canning jar and powdered sugar. I only counted 3 mites.
Is this deformed wing virus? If I only see one, should I be worried? Next mite test I think I will use a different method. Any reccomendations?
I attached the pictures. These pics are the best I could get with my phone, I have to buy a better camera. Membrane-winged insect Insect Bee Organism Pest
Organism Membrane-winged insect Insect Bee Carpenter bee
Insect Pest Finger Hand Invertebrate
Insect Pest Turquoise Beetle Finger
Finger Insect Hand Caterpillar Nail
 
#38 ·
matt1954
IMO Thymol saved you hives. Next time place the Thymol strips on top of the frames not on the bottom, it gives you a much better result. Even if bees propolizing the Thymol, there is no way for them to stop the evaporation of Thymol. Since I use Thymol, I haven't seen DVW for a few years.
 
#40 ·
Checkmite+ is certainly legal for use in bee hives. Yes, it is Coumaphos, and yes, it is a severe chemical, one that I would only use as a last resort. It cannot be used during honey production and is best used when brood rearing is lowest (wintertime). It is tough on brood and bees and humans.

I have used it, it is good against beetles and mites. I have also used MAQS (formic acid) and will probably never use either again. The Thymol works well against mites, or has in the past for me. But once again, not while there is a flow on or supers on.
 
#43 ·
I just thougt I had read where HopGuard would not get the Tracheal mites. I dont know where I read it at. It may have been on the Mann Lake Website or somewhere else. I do know that HopGuard will not kill the mites in the capped cells. I waited until fall there was not much brood rearing going on and treated mine. But I do know one thing HopGuard Works and if its used correctly its good stuff. I think it would be a little easier on the brood than the MAQS, but I do have a container of the MAQS and I still have some HopGuard too. I have not treated since last fall and If everything goes well I will not treat at all. But Im not going to let a hive perish when for just a few bucks I can treat them and add a new queen later and totally change that hive into one that will handle the pests better. All my bees are on small cell and natural cell also and so far Ive not had many problems with mites. I dont use screen bottom boards either. Ive noticed that beeks that use SBB's have more of a winter loss than guys who dont use them. There are beeks around me here that use SBB's and one lost all his hives last winter and another had 15 out of 40 left come spring. One guy close to me here has a big operation and has never used SBB's and he does well. But SBB's are another whole subject.
 
#45 ·
I know HopGuard is some good stuff it works well for what its inteded for. When I treated my bees in the fall I just left the strips in and this spring most of them were still in there and they still had the odor of the treatment on them. I think they make work a little longer than they say they will. My bees had chewed on the strips some but not very much.
 
#46 ·
... When I treated my bees in the fall I just left the strips in and this spring most of them were still in there and they still had the odor of the treatment on them. I think they make work a little longer than they say they will...
To start i will say that i have never used hopguard. That said, I have used several other products. Not just with bees but with cows aswell. When a product is not used as labelled, problems can start to occur.
1. resistance. The residual mites will start to build a resistance to the product. It happens faster than one might think. Not using as specified could come back to bite in the not to distant future
2. Contamination. Test are done by the USA's drug and pesticide groups. In Canada it is the PMRA. They set out the guidelines for usage based on trials. Several factors go into the process...like leaving a product in longer than normal and testing the comb, left over honey, bees etc. One can run the risk of contaminated comb or honey or residuals in the products by not following the directions. Have you not heard all the commotion in the news from alot of activist groups about drug contaimation and the need to regulate livestock meds more than they are now? By not following the direction, you lend credence to these groups...That there are "people" who can not follow directions properly. Well done. :pinch:
3. Illegal. It is also against the law to use products like this against regulations and one can be heavily fined.

There are many reasons why we need to follow manufactures directions. Some reasons are for our protection, some for the bees health protection, and some because good management practices with livestock should be common sense.
 
#48 ·
I, and my bees:), are treatment free. Well, except for the adult beverages I indulge in. Maybe the girls go out at night? Sorry,,,,anyway, like I said, I do not use chems for the bees. I'm not against it if it works for you, don't believe it is the way to go for me. Having said that, and i do not wish to point a finger at anyone being honest about a possible one time thing. But lets face it, it is an easy thing to do(leave the treatment in ) and not realize the long term consequences despite the label. It probably happens way too much. Possibly foder for another thread. Just thinking out loud.
 
#53 ·
I But lets face it, it is an easy thing to do(leave the treatment in ) and not realize the long term consequences despite the label. It probably happens way too much.
If a treatment is going to be used...then use it properly. Follow directions and remove the product in a timely matter. That is all there is to it. Check and double check.
Its like bagging or nutting a steer. Get the elastic, put on the tool, count 1 and 2. Put on the elastic and remove count 1 and 2. If two is not found, remove elastic and start again. So how to apply this story to bees, if two strips go in, two come out...count..easy to do
 
#49 ·
Hopguard comes as a cardboard strip that has been soaked with the active solution. I have yet to see the cardboard remain for more than about a week in my hives. And when I do find a piece of it, it is dry. I don't think it will have the same issues as apistan or checkmite where the active ingredients remain for extended periods and the strips are made of a material that the bees can't chew up and remove.
 
#50 ·
I don't think it will have the same issues as apistan or checkmite where the active ingredients remain for extended periods and the strips are made of a material that the bees can't chew up and remove.
Reality is, it does not matter what you or I think will happen.
1. Public preception that we as livestock producers who feed the world, supply the food chain, can not follow the simpliest of regulations and directions. Result, stiffer regulations, more resistance to issuing new products, public demands for safer foods and education of the farmers who supply it and more than likely tougher fines for not using as directed by the people who determined how to use it.
2. Neither you nor I have a chemical degree nor have done the research nor trials nor tested the residue, with longer applications nor seen the results of leaving a product in longer than recommended. We are beekeepers who are to follow directions with the products which we have been given the use of to produce food for the nations of the world. It is a responsibility which we should hold to the highest standards. Otherwise we are no better than other countries who export products to our respective countries which have contaminates in them, which we find offensive and get into an uproar when they reach our shores. How can we expect our food safety inspectors who inspect imports hold up our standards at the border when we, farmers, ranchers, beekeepers who feed nations, can not.

As farmers, we are charges with feeding the nation. Maybe we are only hobbiests who sell or give away a few jars of honey. Maybe we produce enough honey to feed our family. But there are those, like myself who have an awesome responsiblity to produce the best product possible because I am feeding someone else's family. Someone else's child, mother, father, etc. It is our responsibility to follow manufactures directions when treating. These directions are designed and impliemented so that there is the lowest, minimalist risk to residue to the food we eat.
Until we sit on the committees which pass these regulations, until we manufacture the product and go through the trials which are demanded of the manufactures and do what it takes to apply for the use of the product, until we do the testing which is done by or commissioned by the manufacture to prove for food quality and submit the results, we as producers are to follow directions...no matter what we may or may not think.
 
#56 ·
HS,
I'm on your side. My verbal buffering attempts failed:( To stir the pot),,,,what if you had to take a "short course" of some sort, something to show one has been "educated" to some level, before they could purchase certain products applicable to the hive? Like a drivers license? I have an "expired" commercial pesticide applicators license. I had to get one to apply roundup on a public park. How much difference is there?
I am at this time, in the lowest part of my basement with a kevlar vest on. :)
 
#57 · (Edited)
I understand Rick. It just bothers me, gets my hackles up when someone takes such a cavelier attitude to watching for withdrawal times.

So to put into perspective

MA2 when on the market....do not harvest honey within two weeks of treatment...still have a few pails on the farm...empty pails I should clarify

MAQS...
TIME OF APPLICATION:
To minimize residues and contamination of marketable honey, carefully follow all label instructions.
Pre-Harvest Interval (PHI): Honey: at least 2 weeks from the end of the treatment

Hop guard
This comes from the label which i googled. I can not seem to copy the link. I googled hopguard label, then had to scroll through a few to get to the actual label. It comes up as a pdf file

A maximum of three applications per year (six strips or approximately 11.52 grams of potassium salt of hop beta acids) per ten
frame brood super (chamber) is allowed. This limit includes all applications to the package (if applicable) and to the colony.
Application timing (usually during spring, summer or fall) should be based on the levels of Varroa mites observed in the colony.
Users may not take honey and wax from the brood chambers, only from the honey supers. For optimal results, apply HopGuard
when little to no brood is present in the hive.

RESISTANCE MANAGEMENT
Using this product in rotation with another approved miticide with a different mode of action will decrease the potential for Varroa
mites to develop resistance. If the strip remains in the hive more than 4 weeks remove.
 
#58 ·
Wow! I've been missing a lot during my week vacation:D

Not to change the subject ,but my hives are doing wonderful since the treatment :thumbsup:

I haven't seen a bee with deformed wings in a while now.

I really don't want to get into the whole debate from the previous posts but I will say at the end of the week when I went to remove the cardboard strips they were mostly devoured by the bees and I can't see how they would last any longer in a hive.
 
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