Did I do the right thing?

[coppermouse]

I have a second deep box on a full hive. They started filling the top box with honey. I reversed them and put it on the bottom. Is this the correct way to do it?

[Michael Bush]

Generally you just leave the honey on top.

[robherc]

I think the confusion might have sprung from some of our conversations in other threads about "bottom supering." If so, then know that "bottom supering" is generally done with empty supers that we need to get the bees to build combs in. Full honey supers should generally be left on top until harvest IMHO.

[coppermouse]

I put an empty deep on filled with drawn comb on top with hopes of it becoming a second brood box. Did I do this incorrect. What is the correct way?

[psfred]

That's what I would do if I had a full deep of drawn comb!

Over or under works just about equally on a growing hive for brood. Honey supers, of course, have to go on top because the bees store honey top down. The point of "bottom supering" -- which means add empty or foundation only supers under drawn ones but above the brood nest -- is to get the bees to draw the foundation out. They tend to ignore bare foundation in hoeny supers, and it's sometimes necessary to intermix drawn and filled frames with foundation to get them to work it, even with a flow on.

The natural tendency of bees in spring is to move the brood nest down and fill the top of the comb with honey, so adding a brood box under the current one should result in the brood nest being extended downwards into the new box. However, they will just as readily build upwards if you put the box on top, and you don't have to lift that brood box full of bees to do it.

Peter

[coppermouse]

At this time of the year should I just put it on top and let them fill it with honey rather than make a double brood box? I am in central ohio

[robherc]

I put an empty deep on filled with drawn comb on top with hopes of it becoming a second brood box.

OK, with 3 boxes, and the one that's full of honey on bottom, I think you might end up with the bees trying to move that honey up towards the top, so they can move brood down into the bottom box. The empty box of drawn combs over the brood nest is fine, the bees will use it as they see fit, but I would move the stored honey OVER that empty box to avoid having your bees waste a lot of work on something that you may consider to be "making a mess of things" if they decide they want to move the honey up, and the brood down (which would likely end up in brood & honey mixed together all over the place IMHO).

My recommendation @ this point would be: Put both boxes that you want to be "brood boxes" on the bottom of the stack, whichever one is on top shouldn't matter much there, but keep the "honey super" on the top of the stack.


Good Luck and Happy Bees,
Rob

NOTE: I keep only Tob-Bar hives myself, and do not use stacked-boxes as are used in Langstroth hives. That said, I've studied a lot of works written by Langstroth et all, who use that equipment, thus I am using the information from those sources to make recommendations for you to use in equipment that I don't personally keep bees in, FWIW.

[coppermouse]

I don't have three boxes, I have 2. I added the second deep a few weeks ago hoping it would be a second brood box and they started filling it with honey

[jadell]

I don't have three boxes, I have 2. I added the second deep a few weeks ago hoping it would be a second brood box and they started filling it with honey

Now I'm completely lost. Can you tell us exactly how your hive is now configured, and any other "spare" equipment you have?

[Michael Bush]

>I don't have three boxes, I have 2. I added the second deep a few weeks ago hoping it would be a second brood box and they started filling it with honey

So you only have two boxes and you were hoping they would not store any honey anywhere? But that's what bees do and they always store it overhead.... maybe you should let them do what they do and buy more equipment to give them the room to do it...

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#stopfightingbees

[coppermouse]

OK maybe I understand wrong here, I thought once a first deep was filled up with bees you should add a second to make room for the bees and that second deep would also be a brood box and then later add the honey supers. So I added the second deep with this in mind. It is not that I was not hoping they would store honey I just thought it was desirable for them to expands the brood nest. I have another deep and a couple mediums and frames for all of them with foundation. The second box I added recently had drawn comb. So how should I proceed from here? Let them fill this deep with honey and add mediums as needed?

[feltze]

If you have a nice strong hive, leave your 2 deeps alone. Let the bees be bees, Add a honey super on top of the deeps especially if it is just foundation and let the bees draw it out as they build up.

The only reason to move the2 deeps (brood boxes) is to break up the brood area to help prevent swarms (as I understand). Don't worry too much about making the bees do anything. Unless you have mastered the bee dance and phermone activity of bees, I think they will do as they please given the resources, nectar flow and weather.

Add the super and check it in a couple weeks other than that do nothing but let the bees be bees

[robherc]

OK, now I think I have a better understanding of your situation. If the bees stored honey in a box you wanted them to use for brood, then moving it lower might help "convince" them to use it for brood...IF you give them somewhere else to store the honey. Realistically, I think they'll do what they want, but what they want is usually honey over top of brood, so if you add a honey super or two (might need to bottom super for a week to get a few drawn frames to distribute in the honey supers) on top, then the bees may well do what you're wanting by moving the honey into those supers & some brood into your second deep.


Good luck, and be happy, your bees have already stored some honey so you won't need to feed 'em all winter

[coppermouse]

So would it be best to add another dee on the bottom get them to start drawing out and have that bee the second brood box, or put a medium on the bottom then make it a honey super?

[robherc]

out of those two options, I'd say either one should work just fine...the choice there (in my opinion) can be left to "which do you prefer to work with"...the bees shouldn't care much either way

[psfred]

If they are flying like crazy and filling that deep with honey, it's time for a super. They will draw that out and fill it, moving the brood nest up into your deep.

Their natural instinct is to fill up the hive with honey, and once they have a good supply, swarm if in a flow and they are out of room. If you want a big hive and lots of honey (as we all do, at least the honey anyway), you need to give them plenty of space.

Check your top deep -- if they are putting ONLY honey in it, definitely time for a super, past time in fact. If there is, instead, a wide band of honey but brood on the bottom of the frames, all is good, but you probably should put at least a shallow super on.

Is that second deep all drawn, or just the center frames? They often drawn the frames out and fill them with honey from the center of the box out, then move the honey as they draw more frames and put brood in where they had honey stored. The total amount of honey doesn't change all that much, they just move it around. Both of my caught swarms are doing that right now, two or three full frames of honey, but the honey (or nectar) keeps moving sideways as they draw the foundation out frame by frame. I expect them to put honey in the medium I just put on top of the large swarm, then start more brood up there as the number of bees increases shortly.

Peter

[coppermouse]

If they are flying like crazy and filling that deep with honey, it's time for a super. They will draw that out and fill it, moving the brood nest up into your deep.

Their natural instinct is to fill up the hive with honey, and once they have a good supply, swarm if in a flow and they are out of room. If you want a big hive and lots of honey (as we all do, at least the honey anyway), you need to give them plenty of space.

Check your top deep -- if they are putting ONLY honey in it, definitely time for a super, past time in fact. If there is, instead, a wide band of honey but brood on the bottom of the frames, all is good, but you probably should put at least a shallow super on.

Is that second deep all drawn, or just the center frames? They often drawn the frames out and fill them with honey from the center of the box out, then move the honey as they draw more frames and put brood in where they had honey stored. The total amount of honey doesn't change all that much, they just move it around. Both of my caught swarms are doing that right now, two or three full frames of honey, but the honey (or nectar) keeps moving sideways as they draw the foundation out frame by frame. I expect them to put honey in the medium I just put on top of the large swarm, then start more brood up there as the number of bees increases shortly.

Peter

The second deep is all drawn comb and only honey.
I put a medium on the bottom yesterday, I read that helps get them drawing it out (putting it on the bottom at first), then I will move it to the top. Is this correct? It is starting with plastic frames, no comb. How long till I should move it to the top?

[robherc]

1) Yes, bottom-supering helps get them started drawing out comb faster...you did that right
2) With plastic foundation (I won't go near the stuff, but that's a personal preference thing), you NEED to get some wax covering the foundation, and then it seems to help a lot to spray a little sugar syrup on the wax...plastic isn't very "natural" to the bees, and most ppl report that they don't build on it very well unless it's "hidden" under a layer of wax and "baited" with a little sugar syrup. That said, since I won't touch plastic foundation, that's obviously just information I got from others who have used/do use it

[coppermouse]

1) Yes, bottom-supering helps get them started drawing out comb faster...you did that right
2) With plastic foundation (I won't go near the stuff, but that's a personal preference thing), you NEED to get some wax covering the foundation, and then it seems to help a lot to spray a little sugar syrup on the wax...plastic isn't very "natural" to the bees, and most ppl report that they don't build on it very well unless it's "hidden" under a layer of wax and "baited" with a little sugar syrup. That said, since I won't touch plastic foundation, that's obviously just information I got from others who have used/do use it

There is a coating of wax on the plastic frames, they are the only thing I had to put in the medium box. If they don't build on it I will get some wax foundation frames. Thanks for the advice. Typically how long till I move it to the top?

[robherc]

I don't know how long "typically" you'd want to wait, but if a really good flow is going, they may get a good start a building it out in 2-3 days...otehrwise it could take a week or more. I guess just check on it & whenever you're satisfied with the amount of comb they'd drawn out you can move it to the top of the stack