switch from ten frame to eight frame

**jimbe** · 05-17-2012, 05:05 AM

Hello! I am a newbee and aquired two colonies recently which consist of a deep hive body, a queen excluder and a medium honey super on top. My plan is to take the honey super off (no comb drawn yet), take the excluder off, add an eight frame medium with foundationless frames (with one frame in middle having duragilt for something to help the bees draw staight natural comb) and add a filler board to close off the top of the ten frame deep brood due to the difference in super sizes. Ok so far? I am hoping the queen et al will move up into the eight frame and have that as the first of my new brood supers and then I suppose I should add a queen excluder between the deep and the new eight frame so I can remove the deep. Should I add another medium above to have a honey super or will that be too much space at once? I would like to run the colonies without an excluder....and I have read the queen is often discouraged from moving up into the honey supers if there are honey stores in the one above the brood super. But I don't have those stores yet. Ideas? Thank you.

**AmericasBeekeeper** · 05-17-2012, 05:30 AM

Welcome Jim! I have done all the ideas you stated. The only one that did not work is using duracrap foundation. The wax peels off and the bees never touch it again. If you extract it you will find it at the bottom of the extractor. The vertical supports rust. I have run without excluders for 6 years now. As far as mixing sizes, you have to ask why?

**Michael Bush** · 05-17-2012, 06:19 AM

You can pull any frames from any width box and put them in any box of the same depth. I'm not clear about what the sizes are in your ten frame boxes as opposed to your eight frame boxes. But if they are different depths, the the easiest is to wait for them to move up.

**jimbe** · 05-17-2012, 07:23 AM

Thank you both for such quick replies....I see where my post was a little vague....I had to rewrite it as the first attempt didn't make it thru for some reason and I was rushing to get to work... The ten frame the bees are in is a deep super....I want to move them to a medium super. The medium super that is stacked on top is a ten frame...with foundation frames (duracrap, I'm told....) not drawn yet. So I want to switch to eight frame mediums all around. So I plan to let them move up into my new eight frame with foundationless frames (except for one foundation containing frame for a guide...if I even need that.....I am using the Kelly foundationless frames. Then I want to get rid of the ten frame deep body where the brood is right now and just go with all medium eight frames. That is why I thought I might need to put an excluder between the old deep hive body and my new medium eight frame as soon as I'm sure the queen is up in it. Right track?

**KelpticFest** · 05-17-2012, 08:05 AM

I just completed the ten-to-eight transition this year, and went the extra mile and except for the very bottom deep, ALL boxes are shallows (wanted less weight at arms' length). I worried about how to do all this, then I realized - in the spring at least, there is usually no brood in the outermost frames. So when I did my thorough inspection, I just opened the 10-frames, inspected each one, and replaced the center eight into the new deep bottom box. Then I added a shallow 8-frame box with some drawn comb frames, some with honey, left over from last year, and the bees ended up with pretty much the same real estate as when they started, just no buffers of honey on the sides, and all neatly in the new 8-frames with no fuss. I am planning to put 2 shallows on to form the "second brood box", then honey supers on top, to give the 8-frames about the same volume as 2 10-frame deeps. One hive, that I thought was going to die over the winter, surprised the heck out of me and came back like a freight train. When I checked them Sunday they had filled their 1 deep and 2 shallows and started drawing the 3rd shallow (over the excluder) - but I also found 10 swarm cells! All cups were still empty, so I removed them and took out the excluder to give them a 3rd shallow for brood. Don't want to discourage those babies!

**Michael Bush** · 05-17-2012, 07:52 PM

If you pull any deep frames that aren't brood (honey or pollen will do or empty) then put some of the medium frames in the deep box they will be drawn and get brood in them. Then you can move those up to the medium with the queen and put an excluder under it and wait for the rest of the brood to emerge. Then you can pull all the deeps. or do a cutout. or wait for them to empty the box by next spring...

**jimbe** · 05-18-2012, 04:33 AM

Thank you, Michael. Do I place the medium frames in the same location (outer edges) of the deep body or can I move brood frames and put them interspersed in the center? I've been reading that quite often the outer frames aren't used in the hive body...have you found that to be the case? Does a cutout mean trimming the deeper comb to fit the medium frames.....to speed up the switch to all medium bodies? Jim

**Michael Bush** · 05-19-2012, 12:33 AM

If the hive is strong you can put them anywhere you like and between two brood combs is a good choice as they will be drawn straight and they will be laid up quickly.

Yes, a cutout means you cut the comb out of the frame and cut it to fit a medium frame and tie it in the frame. The leftovers from two of those cutouts put together will fill a third frame, or just cut off the honey at the top and keep the bottom part... and if you do a complete cut out, you will be done with the deeps. Scrap the honey and pollen and keep the brood.