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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Roy, Wa
    Posts
    1,875

    Default Is it just me or is grafting for the first time easier than using the graftless type

    Talk about hurry up and wait.
    First of all I'll say the instructions that came with the Mann Lake graftless system scared me. Place my expensive breeder queen in a new hive with no introduction cage? No thank you.
    Before I used it I read many posts here about the quirks of using this type of system, so I was aware one day in a hive to get polished and aquire the hive smell was not enough. I left my system in a hive for three days before putting my queen inside.
    This hive had been overwintered in the Northwest and was still smaller than I would like, only about 6 frames. After five days the queen had not laid in it and I turned her loose out of concern for her. I gave that hive a few frames of bees and brood to boost it and will try later. It's nights are still cool here.
    Choosing another hive that was purchased from California and was booming, I placed the system and queen..waiting three days and happy to see eggs when I checked. That night I inserted the divider in the cloak board system type receving hive.
    Next morning..still eggs. Next day..still eggs. Next day still eggs...Sheesh. Now my receiving hive has been queenless for three days. (Yes, I inspected and removed the queen cells started by this hive.) I just grabbed a frame of eggs and larva and grafted. Luckily I planned to learn to do this too and was prepared with my JZBZ frame and a magnified illuminator. Yes, I feel I squished a few larva, but overall by the time I was done with 10 or so I had the hang of it.
    Wham! Bam! Done! My schedule, not the bees. And much less invasive and time consuming than getting into the hive every day to see if eggs had hatched.
    Enough of these grafted cells are being drawn out and raised to warrent leave this frame in the hive.
    I removed the graftless system and will try again. With my short season area I am concerned about letting weeks or even days go by with no progress.
    I have to say my new light is fantastic. My eyes are not great and with this light and my reading glasses Eggs looked like hot dogs.I spent a few $$ to get a good one with clear optics. 10 or so queen sales will pay for it and it will serve me for years.
    I was a little unhappy after ordering it online from Amazon for $227.49 It came from Penn Tool and they were selling in online for $179.00. They were nice to deal with though and the light is amazing, and the Hallogen light is not too hot for the comb. It just gives off a gentle warm temp.

    http://www.penntoolco.com/catalog/pr...ategoryID=8411



    Made in the USA- not a China junko cheapie piece of C***

    They have the same light a little cheaper with a shorter arm, but I thought My husband would use this at time to read blueprints..He is stealing my reading glasses all the time, LOL.

    I left the graftless system and the eggs out overnight to dry up and will insert them into a large hive to be cleaned. I hesitate to put new cups in it if it is the new smell that is holding the progress up. If they clean out the eggs I'll use the old cups and try it again until I get the hang of it. But another week will go by even if it is successful this time.

    Hurry up and wait does not work for me..Hurry up and get the job done does.

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Miller...56954971040510
    Last edited by Lauri; 05-10-2012 at 10:27 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    2,781

    Default Re: Is it just me or is grafting for the first time easier than using the graftless t

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauri View Post
    Place my expensive breeder queen in a new hive with no introduction cage?
    Say What??? NO! The breeder queen doesn't move hives. She is in an established hive or nuc already accepted and laying. When ready to start, she gets placed into the graftless box and never leaves her hive. Once she lays she can be released, again back into the same hive. On day 3.5 to 4 larvae get transferred to the cell builder.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Roy, Wa
    Posts
    1,875

    Default Re: Is it just me or is grafting for the first time easier than using the graftless t

    Yes, the instructions that came with the Mann Lake system say make your nuc and leave it queenless for at least 3 days before installing your queen in the graftless system so they won't kill her! YIKES! For a new person who dosn't know better that is insane.

    http://www.mannlakeltd.com/publicati...20QC%20100.pdf

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Roy, Wa
    Posts
    1,875

    Default Re: Is it just me or is grafting for the first time easier than using the graftless t

    So while I am sharing details, I'll say the brown cell fixtures you are supposed to 'Brad nail' onto your frame need to be stapled on both sides. A brad nail will pull right through the plastic and a nail with a larger head will pull right out of your frame, even if it is long enough to go all the way through to the other side of the wood. The yellow cup holders are quite tight and when you try to remove them, the brown cell fixtures will pull right off if you don't staple them. You can see I even tried the nail and glue and made a mess. Do the staple and you're done.



    I even had trouble with the JZBZ cells, Mann Lake says they are supposed to fit perfectly in the groove of the frames. Not even close. The frame groove is way to large. These have to modified also.
    Sorry if I seem to be complaining. Just sharing info to help others avoid mistakes and frustration. It just seems like the products and info the companies give are not corrrect in many cases. I remember when I got my top feeder from Mann Lake and finding all the drown bees in it before I realized it needed to be calked all around the screen bottom. New beekeepers don't need extra help with failier. We can do it all on our own.
    One of the reasons I wanted to use the graftless system is the neat hair roller cages. I sure wish JZBZ had something like those that would fit their cups.



    So I will clarify I Love Mann Lake and do most of my business there-not intending to trash them, but certainly they need to rethink a few things.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia, MS, USA
    Posts
    635

    Default Re: Is it just me or is grafting for the first time easier than using the graftless t

    Get the plastic JZBZ cell bars. The cups fit them perfect and no more cups falling off.

    Grafting is the only way to go. When your ready to graft, go to your breeder hive and find frame with right age larva and graft.

    Johnny
    "Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." - Mark Twain

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Flora,IL
    Posts
    2,644

    Default Re: Is it just me or is grafting for the first time easier than using the graftless t

    I like grafting better, but I usually use mel Dissolkoen system. Its even easier and faster than grafting. The downside is that if I do 20 or so queens there is not much of that frame of comb left when I am done

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