So, this may be controversial but I have come to the conclusion that the Screened bottom board is not that all effective for mite control and is not worth the extra expense and work to use just as a ventilation aid.
For starters, the mites that fall off are usually ones that are injured, sick or just plain unlucky. These represent a small portion of all of the mites in a hive, of which most are in capped cells any how and are not falling out. So the mechanical mite drop is not that effective.
Then we have the issue of medications. If you plan on using medications, many require the bottom to be closed to that the chemical vapours (like thymol) have a chance to fill the hive and kill the mites. So then you need to use the silly flimsy trays supplied to seal them off. The only "medication" I see benefiting from the sbb (if you can call it medication) is powdered sugar, which requires too many applications because it does not get mites in the cells and then I need to buy all of the sugar.
If you want to go treatment free, the issue in my mind is not mites dropping, but rather mite management by much more proactive ipm methods like drone trapping and brood cycle delaying. Better yet are more hygienic bees that can combat the mites by recognizing and removing infected brood. These are not reliant on natural mite drop.
Finally the issue of ventilation:
While I think ventilation is very important in a hive as it controls moisture management, there are other ways to get ventilation other than a huge gaping hole in the bottom of the hive. Popsicle sticks under the top cover for instance or drilling small ventilation holes or using shims all serve the same purpose just as well. (perhaps maybe not in the humid south or bayou areas but at least where I am in the North East) Where I live in New York I find that the winds and cold winters make it impossible to keep the bottom open in the winter, so I need to put the useless-cheap-plastic-election-sign-material-insert in again which has no insulative value. In the summer when its really hot, you could use rocks to prop the telescoping cover up or invest in slatted racks which can stay in the hive permanently.
...So now I am going back to buying solid bottom boards What says the board?
I have moved more towards solid bottoms in recent years, but that's because I'm cheap and I can convert the solid bottoms to feeders.
All the feral removals I've done in old hollow trees had a pile of debris at the bottom that was full of wax moth larvae and the bees seemed totally uninterested in them. They were also uninterested in the ants, roaches and beetles that were there as well. I see no issue with the wax moths living below the SBB as it's just like the debris in a natural hive and seems to do no harm.
Well, looks like you finally figured it out!!! SBB=HYPE!!!!
Look at the brood patterns of your frames between the SBB and the Solid BB, you definately will see a difference. As far as mite counts go there is little difference, not worth it. Develop a protocol for treatment and keep it simple. I do have a few SBB nuc boxes, not fully screened, but partial and also have a vent hole in the upper nuc body. I only do this because I am in South Florida and I have better results starting splits in high temp months.
I have SBB with sliding boards under the screen on all my hives. Warres, Top Bars, and Langs. I leave the sliding boards in all the time year around except for mite inspection and pulling them out a couple of inches for ventilation on hot days. Here in the Pacific Northwest it only gets hot enough for that a few days a year. The statement, “I don’t see SBB in the feral colonies in nature, so they can’t be all that great” isn’t really a very strong argument against them. Pretty much nothing we keep bees in or do to them exists in nature. The last hive I lost to mites was 3 years ago and it was a solid bottom board. Nearly all my hives have Varroa mite populations in them. I don’t treat any of them unless I see the population getting out of control. Then I treat with powdered sugar and that has only happened twice in the 3 years since I switched over to SBBs. My personal philosophy is that all healthy colonies can have a small mite population and that I will do far more damage to the health of the hive by treating with chemicals trying to get it to zero mites. I am actually a keeper that researches and reads scientific studies on bee keeping. I have studies indicating that the rate of natural mite drop can reach more then 25% population. There are formulas for counting the mite drop on the sticky paper from a 24 hour drop and multiplying for the population level in the hive. No brainer for me- if I can kill ¼ of the mites in my colonies 24 hours a day, 7 days a week year around for free, without lifting a finger, I’m there.
I run all SBB and I love them. I enjoy making them as well. I just get scraps of plywood and cut them the same dimensions as a hive body plus a 2" landing board. Then I cut out a square in the bottom about the size of 6 frames (brood area) and staple on 3/4" pieces of wood for the hive body to rest on, staple the wire on and its light and works great!
I use the same approach but I sandwich the screen board with solid board with 1/2" gap in between to accommodate the sticky board. Sticky board is just piece of white plastic with some oil. One could put a piece of wood in the gap between sticky board and screen to close it completely. For beginners like myself, screen bottom is very educational - I could count mites, see what else is on the board: crumbs of wax (remodeling?), droppings from wax moth (attention!), pollen (protein)... I am using the mesh with smaller holes, so wax moth could not get inside. Mites comes through, no problem. It seems to me that screen with my design (smaller holes) is quite effective against mites - bees walk easily on the screen and drop the mites. Since screen is always crowded, it is high chance for mites to get through the screen. I also think that screen must be sandwiched with solid board. Sergey
If you staple another screen on the bottom you'll have a double screen bottom board that works great for splits, combining hives and placing weaker hives on top of stronger hives for heat.
I used screened bottom boards and oil trays. The screen is 1/6 instead of the 1/8 which is normal and 1/4 is too big.
The benefit here is that both larva of wax moth and small hive beetle fall into the bottom. The hive beetle larva never make it out of my hive, and I catch a lot of adults in there too. I do see mites, but the hive beetle is what concerns me. I once was careless and moved a capped frame too close to a side of the box. The next time I came in and saw it, I pulled it out to check, fearing dead larva. Instead, it was a mass of beetle larva, so even the smallest mistake can create a lot of larva that could cause a problem.
I don't remove and clean the trays as often as I should but I do know they work fantastic when clean with liquid oil in them.
FOr what its worth, there is another observation to consider, Queens don't seem to like to lay near the opening. they prefer darker areas. Queens on SBB seem to move up faster that queens on solids. Noted to me by a large beek in GA, and I am evalUATING his thoughts.
Well, the best this three hive owner, all new, with screened bottom boards can get from this thread is confusion. SBB can mean Screened or Solid, to add to my confusion. Was this just a fad? Many OTs (Old Timers) are switching, or at least not using more. I do wonder how much honey my girls are burning to stay warm, any studies of heat balance around bee hives? Of course here near Houston TX they are probably burning energy staying cool!
How in the world could you possibly accept such heresy as turning away from the Sacred Screened Bottom Boards?! I have been beekeeping for 3 years, have never run anything but screened BBs, and I have never had varroa mites.
Screen bottom boards come in several different designs and applications. Minor changes to the several designs and applications being made by independent keepers and these variances being applied to regional conditions will produce, or in some cases, not produce a cornucopia of results. Basically SBBs come in 2 basic designs; a plain open screen floor with a frame around the edges holding the hive boxes or a screen floor with a sliding board under it, usually slid in and out from the back of the hive floor. As in all aspects of beekeeping, if it works for you and your style of keeping bees, it is a good idea. If you find no particular advantage to a method or accessory, then clearly, it is of no value to you personally. Identical SBBs being used exactly the same in Texas and in Maine will have clearly different effects on the hive colony. There isn’t an aspect of beekeeping that isn’t glorified or condemned depending on who you talk to. I have learned that advice from a keeper that will viciously malign some aspect or method of beekeeping is based personal opinion or misunderstanding. The greatest knowledge and insight I have received all my life in keeping bees came from keepers that warmly shared their experiences and insight with a level of care and respect for the diversity that is Beekeeping.
I bought them for several years, but I have started moving back to solid also. The nice things about them are that you can easily count mites and you don't have to be so worried about tilting your hive forward to drain water.
I hate painting them and the slides are all different, so if I take them out I have to experiment to figure out which slide fits which BB. I also kept the slides in after I noticed that the queen didn't lay as close to the bottom and that the solid bottom board hives seemed to have more brood, and started flying earlier in the day in the cool springs that we have.
I also noticed that if I used one on a cell builder with a Cloake Board that the forager bees can find their queen through the screen if the slide doesn't fit well (about half of mine).
I lost a nuc last winter to excess moisture. My fault, the hive wasn't slanted forward, it was actually slanted back, and it had a solid bottom. I found a small pool of water and frogs eggs in it.... It made me realize that I don't have to worry about that as much with a screened board.. I have a hive with a solid board, and it had a ton of crap on it come spring to clean out.. The screened boards weren't nearly as bad. Don't know about the mites... I just want to keep breeding from survivors and not worry about it too much.. who knows..
Most people here are using SBB with oil traps, yes, it is messy, costly, and yet also very effective at controlling SHB and mites as well. Beekeeping is so region-specific, but with SHB here now in great numbers, this extra effort has made it possible for many beeks to recover from last years losses. TBH users fit their hives with screened bottoms and oil trays too. its a nice setup.
I particularly like that you know when you see a couple larvae in the tray, you need to pop the hive and see what is happening, and having that early detection system is very helpful...
If beeks are using a tray under their screen bottom boards to catch and kill mites and/or shb, how does the sbb function as a ventilation method? So it is used as a pest trap and not for ventilation? I know there is much disagreement as to whether the extra ventilation is good or bad anyway. Since I want to be treatment-free, I suppose the pest trap use of the screen board makes the most sense, forget about it as a ventilation method, use the tray/oil to keep the shb from getting to the ground for their life-cycle.
Has anyone tried the sbb from beetlejail that has a finer screen over most of the bottom for mite drop and the standard 1/8" screen at the back into a trap for shb? I've been to their site but can't find a price on it...only the beetlejail small traps. I saw this sbb on a youtube video...it seems like a good idea. Then you could have ventilation, mite drop, and shb trapping! Jim
I agree with some of the other Southern posters. In the south, the sbb is a godsend. I use the Rossman sbb with SHB trap. It is the greatest thing since slice bread!!!! LOL Mites and SHB simply fall to their deaths. Also, the screening offers ventilation for our long hot summers. Just my thoughts.
Here in NM I normally just use a solid bottom or a bottom with screened vent holes cut in it. Can't tell whether a screened bottom makes a diference for mites as I have not had huge issues with them. Nor do we seem to have SHB.
Now, ants, that is another story. They love those screened bottoms, at least where I live.
I'm making more sbb's. I can make them for about $6 with a white plastic sticky - not pretty enough to sell to anyone, but helps with heat, ventilation, snapshot of what is going on in the hive. I have 2 hives not on them at the moment. One is on a solid board with a 3 inch hole in the middle that is screened with #8, (former hogan trap bb), and one is just an old solid board. And the ONLY way I can see what is going on in those 2 is to open them up. Which I do not always have time for at the right time of day. Have pics to upload, was chasing my thread.
All we have ever used is sbb Because that is what we were taught when we started. Most everyone I know with bees are hobbiests with less than 10 hives each. It is certainly easier and cheaper to make sbb and when we go collect a swarm or a feral hive it keeps the bees cool when we close up the entrance to put them in the back seat. When we went to Miskas last week to get a couple of queens I noticed that all of his hives that he is producing to sell have solid bottoms. I did not think to ask him why. Any way when we start some more splits in the spring I will try a couple of solid bottoms.
I think the mite issue is not going to be solved with chemicals or even mechanical changes like the bottom boards. Ulitimately the bees will adapt. Queen breeders need to breed for mite resistance and researchers need to look for natural preditors on the mites.
Remember there are many different ways to keep bees so do what works best for you and don't be afraid to experiment
Agree with bee keeping being location driven. In Northern Calif. heat is the the big thing along with enough water for the bees. I use the screened bottom to help with heat. Almost never have my bees hanging on the side of hive when temps plus 100. Not so sure about the mite control thou.
All three of my hives have open SBB's, no sticky paper, no oil, just open to the air all year. Live near Reno; winters are ~20-deg F at night, ~40-deg during the day, give or take... No condensation problems in Reno
My bees have overwintered just fine, even with fully open screens. I haven't done comparisons to solid bottom boards yet. I am concerned about what one poster said, regarding the bees trying to cover the entire screen. I haven't noticed this, but I've never looked for it either, and I expect I wouldn't notice without looking directly into the entrance...
So, now I'll start looking!
If all else is equal between the two types of bottoms, I would keep the SBB's because of the moisture issues and because I don't have to worry about overheating if I have to seal up a hive...
My $0.02
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