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Russell Queens

79K views 146 replies 49 participants last post by  beeker 
#1 ·
I have been wanting to try some Russell Sunkist Queens for a couple years now. I first placed my order in January of 2011 made payment and they confirmed my order within a day. They were due to ship that May, but I had to cancel them because of a trip to Italy. When I returned I emailed them and asked them not to ship because we were experiencing such a bad spring, wind, cold, drought. It was not time to be making up splits as many of my colonies were stressed. They agreed to place my order on hold for a 'will call". This February I emailed them and asked to have my previous order shipped this April, 2012. Victoria emailed me back the following day and confirmed they would ship the week of April 23rd. After a one week delay I received them via US Postal overnight mail this past Saturday, May 5th. I had made up some splits and installed most of them yesterday. Just wanted to say thank you to Victoria and Russell. I always heard back from them immediately and they really went out of their way to accomodate my schedule. Looking forward to checking out these Sunkists and for some other orders in the future.
 
#106 ·
That is not great news but very unsurprising IMHO. From the accusations that they made up the deaths of 2 of their friends/family, of no storm damage 2 years in a row, and of false postings under different names can you blame them? One of the posters is even throwing out veiled physical threats. I can't see how it would be worth it from a business standpoint.

Far be it from me to judge those who haven't gotten the products they have paid for. And there is no doubt that some of the communication has been less than acceptable. But the rhetoric, accusations, and threats has gotten a bit out of control here.

As to my experience, I received my Russell Carniolan queen yesterday. It shipped 1 week later than expected. USPS lost the package for a night so it went 2 day instead of overnight (which had nothing to do with Russell), but the queen and attendants looked to be good when I installed them today. I hope she performs well and that the overnight layover somewhere in the US didn't effect her.
 
#108 ·
Oh well, Russell misses out. I buy small quantities and select for breeders. Ive heard some guys talking about reselling for him. With our own outfit starting II this fall, I'd expect we can do all kinds of interesting things. Seems like the solution would be hire some girls to staff the office and start weeding through a semi reliable calender. One thing is sure in bees, if you do 3 times whatever you have sold, youll always have it covered. And queens? Everybody ALWAYS wants more queens. Always at the last minute. So... Id take the stress and pass it off on some young purdy things with phones and the internet.
 
#121 ·
Oh well, Russell misses out.
Mr. Prosser: Do you know how much damage this bulldozer would sustain if I just let it roll over you?
Arthur: How much?
Mr. Prosser: None at all.

Excerpt from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

PS The hobbyists are not the bulldozer.
 
#109 ·
All I know is my dealings with them have been exemplary. The 2 Italian/carnolian queens I got are laying wall to wall, I mean they are barely leaving room at the top and sides for any honey. I will miss being able to get queens from them directly. I may have to order a few more this year just to get the genetic additions I wanted, unfortunately I won't get to keep either of the it/car, because I had so much trouble getting queens mated myself that they are going into a customer's nucs. Maybe in the future I can get my local club big enough that we can put a group order together that would be big enough.
 
#110 ·
i would agree my dealings with them have been great and have received timely responses to emails.

Dr Russell personally replaced several queens last year at no cost to me when they did not take even though i suggested it was likely my fault. How many suppliers would do that?
 
#114 ·
Here is one. He's never been late for me but he has asked if I could take them early. I get a few boxes a year for splits in March and nucs in fall. Couldn't be happier. Commercials don't order from his website. My son works for him. They cater to California big time. People going in and out of almonds is where their money is. Breeders too. I'm not gettin in it but I don't see any commercials that I know on here. The few that were didn't hang around long. The idea of a place to chat is good but when your livelihood becomes a public debate its gone too far I think. I may get special treatment but I know a bunch of good guys that get Russell queens and cells too. They are cheaper than some and more than others but they do a good job for me.
 
#120 · (Edited by Moderator)
Here is one. He's never been late for me but he has asked if I could take them early.
Commercials almost always order in units of 100 (actually 104) which may be more than all of the complaints I have read combined. I have no doubt it is a bit of a pain to deal with lots of small orders, I know I wouldn't have the patience, but why on earth wouldn't you just fill all these orders to save the bad publicity when you are in some cases offering far larger numbers of queens early to others. Im not trying to pile on here but this account just dosent sound like the same company that has been telling us about all the hard luck they have had the past 2 seasons. Guess I am just going to quit trying to make any sense out of all this.
 
#115 ·
Enough he said she said crap. THE BOTTOM LINE!!!! If you take a customers $$$ you must provide the product or refund the money. I know some of these customers have waited over a year. That's long enough, give them their money back and be done with it.
 
#117 ·
I know some of these customers have waited over a year.
Who has waited over a year?

If you ordered a queen in October for next spring, I wouldn't exactly say you were waiting for that whole time, as it's expected delivery was in 2012, not in October when you bought it.

But if you did order for a Spring 2011 delivery and you didn't receive anything (queen or refund by now), yes, that is a problem. I don't know if I heard of anyone who that has happened to though . . .

i did receive my refund from Russell Apiaries. 3 months late,
So you asked for a refund at the end of February?
 
#122 ·
My son is a foreman for him. So I have a little idea of how they work but I don't work there or represent them so please take it for what its worth. The California cages that I get from them are 104 to a box. I use three boxes early in march this year for splits. I sent a check for $5100 on September 5th last year after I finished pulling and knew what kind of money I would be getting out of that crop. That was for 300 queens $17 each is the 150+ rate. My check cleared sometime in the middle of February and my first box was delivered on March 5th. The other two boxes were delivered on the next two Wednesdays as I requested. I think that the small orders are filled after the large ones are. I know what you mean about it seeming like they could just knock out all these little ones and save the bickering but then they may have put a longtime commercial customer in a bind that he can't get out of. You got one hive that is queenless for an extra week or 2 or you got a commercial that is missing a week or two from his crop or setting his nucs back that far and putting the complaints on his back. Doc said that he has lost money on small orders because he replaces the queens that the people don't introduce right and he pays the shipping. The profit on one queen must be dismal so sending one replacement at today's shipping rates must eat up the profits for about 10 other orders. If he loses one commercial customer, that loss would eat up the profits from 100 or more little customers. I have seen them packing commercial orders in California and they are all relaxed and having a good time packing 20 or 30 boxes twice a week. Those 20 or 30 boxes would be 2000 or 3000 little orders and every one still needs a package a label and contacting the customer. If 500 of those are fumbled by the post office or the new beekeeper that gets them messes up the install, that's 500 replacements that go into the next weeks work and $10000 on shipping and he gets zip for those. He could say no replacements but with the bickering here, that would be 500 people with torches and pitchforks joining the crowd. I think he did right by cutting it off. My son let me in on their plans and I think everyone will be happy with them. Doc is going to get back to his research and focus on working with breeders and commercials. They will have a whole company in each state that will be smaller but only covering a smaller demographic. The cells that the smaller companies use for their queens will all be from the 3 cell builder places that serve the whole company. I like the idea.
 
#124 · (Edited by Moderator)
I would like to apologize and ask my forum posts be removed. I was caught up in the Beesourse forums mis information and heated thread and made some statements that I know now, after a few personal messages from Beesourse members, were harsh and not correct.

Many of the folks upset about their late orders had extenuating circumstances on their end that was not disclosed. Not all, but many.

Please accept my apology to all members. Any questions please PM me.


Lauri Miller
 
#125 ·
Yes at one operation in California. They have more than that though. I think they manage 10000 nucs. They co op with other companies so they can be where the spring is to extend their seasons. Following the flow I guess. They don't raise queens in Mississippi. That was his dad. It would suit me to be able to drive over to pick up cells when I need them. But Doc says he won't be selling queens from here.
 
#126 ·
Mr. Hughes, I understand what you are saying and I did not think that Russells would continue this terribly troubling onsies and twosies market. I cringed every time I read on his forum the whines and the rations of crap being handed out. I fully agree with his decision as I am totally unwilling to ever again undergo the drama of when I will recieve the queens for my business. I in good faith ordered and paid up front a full large price each for ten queens. I wanted them to make splits in early May. In an effort to keep my bees out of the trees I have scrambled and bought queens twice now. I no longer really need these queens paid for last October, but how would I tell someone? No one answers an email or a phone. I understand again the pressure the cascade of calls by frantic orderers of onsies and twosies put on their system. I have intentionall not added to the din. I am just an old dilletante who can afford to let capital rot for a year and go to the expense of overwintering and testing queens---that I won't be able to get again if I like and want them! I am not a serious businessman like you, buying a hundred at a time--who obviously needs better treatment. And has connections.

Now, those folks who ordered woodware last year before Christmas and were still begging for it the end of April, what flood of small people orders caused that?

I am not in any way shape or form wishing Dr. Russell ill in his life or business. I thank him for the knowledge he freely passes out. He almost replaces the wisdom of _______! I just believe that when you make a promise that you keep it or make it right if you can't. I just don't need a lot more of this kind of drama. So I will calmly wait til I get my 15 queens I have on order and be thankful if they don't arrive with the first snow in September. Then I won't be back.

Vance E. Gilbraith
Great Falls Montana
 
#129 ·
WPG: I stand corrected "helped" not "relied" fair enough. Now please clarify that I was clearly referring to $3 queen cells and not $3 mated queens. We have not only significantly grown our business with them we have supplied many of the best commercial operations with the same stock as well. I didn't realize all of our hard work has resulted in a bunch of Yugo's. If the premise of your argument is that one must spend lots of money to end up with good bees then I most respectfully disagree. Not only are there lots and lots of good breeders out there but I would maintain that good breeding conditions and good beekeeping practices trump any claimed genetic advantages every time anyway.
 
#130 ·
If the premise of your argument is that one must spend lots of money to end up with good bees then I most respectfully disagree. Not only are there lots and lots of good breeders out there but I would maintain that good breeding conditions and good beekeeping practices trump any claimed genetic advantages every time anyway.
Could not agree more. If all it took was genetics there would be millions of commercial beekeepers.
 
#135 ·
***************** Notice ***************

To all posting on the subject of Russell, refrain from starting new threads. There are already plenty of threads going on this topic, we don't need anymore! Also, DO NOT cross-post the same message to all the different threads like I just did!!

***************** End Notice ***************
 
#142 ·
I'd like to give an update on my experience with Russell Apiaries. Got notice two queen (SK for my dad and moonbeam for me) would ship last week. Shipped on Tuesday and arrived on Saturday. I was pretty concerned about the transit time. Gave both queens drops of water on the screens which the attendants eagerly took. Did this until they didn't take any more. Made a split from my hive with frames of pollen and honey. Didn't have any brood frames because I'm in the process of switching from a deep to mediums. Didn't wait any to put the queen cage in the split, next time I will. Did the same thing on same day at my dad's place. Next day the bees still hadn't accepted the moonbeam. Waited another day and they appeared to be feeding through the screen. Hadn't touched the candy plug so I released her and all is well. Went to my dad's place and found his split nearly empty with a dead queen and attendants in the cage. Not sure what happened. I suspect that she just didn't make it after the long shipping time and the bees went back to the old hive after she died. Or maybe they left and then she died? Don't know. Both splits were made the exact same way, one made and one didn't. Anyway my dad emailed them and told them what happened. He already had one SKC coming that wasn't yet ready to ship on this order. He asked if they had any queen at all that he could buy and add to the SKC already ordered. Victoria said she would see about replacing the dead queen at no charge. This impressed me because we didn't blame them or expect anything. I can't even say they did the right thing because that would be suggesting doing nothing was the wrong thing and they owed us nothing. It's just very generous and much appreciated. So a big thank you to them for that. I can't speak to the quality of these new queens but I do know his first hive which I gave him last year was made with a Russell VSH queen and that hive is going gangbusters this year so I expect the others to do just as well. The communication issues are a legitimate customer service issue. I think Russell recognizes that and is changing course to remedy the situation in his own way. I hope it all works out for the best for both them and his customers.
 
#143 · (Edited)
How can you have "different DNA"?

Even in the scientific community, the abbreviation "DNA" is used interchangeably to mean the molecule(s), the generic chemical compounds(s), or the coding contained therein...so arguing that "all DNA is the same" is being facetious and ridiculous purely for the sake of argument.

Debate is healthy and good, when there's something to be learned from it. However, making facetious arguments simply to degrade a conversation helps nobody, and confuses any readers who aren't educated on the subject..I think we should all find more constructive applications for our intelligence, instead of trying so desperately to prove to others that we have it (and no, I'm not calling anyone unintelligent...just suggesting that it should be put to more beneficial use).


...DNA is DNA

OK, I stand corrected, now we're calling all books the same, regardless of page count, OR content...the result is the same; "The Grapes of Wrath" and "The Cat in The Hat" are both books, but they are most definitely DIFFERENT books...they may both be made of ink & paper, but that does not in any way make them the same thing. A life form's DNA is the "book" containing all the information needed to manufacture that organism. The DNA is divided into chromosomes (chapters/pages), and each chromosome contains the code for many genes (words/sentences), each made up of several, ordered base pairs (letters/characters).

That's why to say that "DNA is DNA" is exactly equivalent to saying "a book is a book". In either instance, while the statement may be true in the nit-picky sense of "yes, they're made up of the same stuff"...that's the total end of the truth to the statement, as both DNA and books are defined by not the physical medium they're made of, but the stored information within that medium.


Any further sarcastic & intentionally inaccurate/misleading remarks on this line of questioning should be made by PM so as not to cause confusion for innocent bystanders who find this thread in a Google search.
 
#146 ·
Even in the scientific community, the abbreviation "DNA" is used interchangeably to mean the molecule(s), the generic chemical compounds(s), or the coding contained therein...so arguing that "all DNA is the same" is being facetious and ridiculous purely for the sake of argument.

I'm not being facetious at all. This forum and the readers are not the scientific community, hence my effort to clarify your use of the term "DNA".


...DNA is DNA

OK, I stand corrected, now we're calling all books the same, regardless of page count, OR content...the result is the same; "The Grapes of Wrath" and "The Cat in The Hat" are both books, but they are most definitely DIFFERENT books...they may both be made of ink & paper, but that does not in any way make them the same thing. A life form's DNA is the "book" containing all the information needed to manufacture that organism. The DNA is divided into chromosomes (chapters/pages), and each chromosome contains the code for many genes (words/sentences), each made up of several, ordered base pairs (letters/characters).

That's why to say that "DNA is DNA" is exactly equivalent to saying "a book is a book". In either instance, while the statement may be true in the nit-picky sense of "yes, they're made up of the same stuff"...that's the total end of the truth to the statement, as both DNA and books are defined by not the physical medium they're made of, but the stored information within that medium.

There are certainly different Genomes comprised of DNA. When dealing with breeding, in the context of this thread, one producer's queens have the same DNA as another's. The queen's genomes are different.. The queen's hereditary expression is different. For sure!

I "nit-picked" as someone correcting grammer for clarity, would. No offense. No rancor-- not trying to be facetious.
My intent was to be accurate about the description of the breeding. That accuracy is important.

Adam Finkelstein
www.vpqueenbees.com
 
#145 ·
Well my dad got two queens in the post yesterday. The SKC he had ordered and they included a moonbeam for free to replace the SK that had died in the cage before being released. Got them in the splits yesterday. Checked today and the moonbeam was accepted. The SKC was dead in the cage. That's two sunkist queens that died in the cage and two moonbeams that made it fine under the same circumstances.
 
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