Packages from Bluegrass . . .

[Keth Comollo]

Just wanted to give a shout out to Brad aka Bluegrass. He delivered three packages to me in the night (he was running a bit late) on his trip north.
His packages were some of the healthiest I have seen. Installed the next morning and they have been working for a couple of days now. Take a look at how few dead bees there are in this package.

IMG_0495.jpg

[bluegrass]

Thanks Keth. The quality of the packages is owed to Gardner/Spell bee. I do my best to take good care of them in transit, but it takes a good package to start with if it is going to look good on arrival.
Late is an understatement . Hope you didn't have to wait too long. It is a long trip back with very little sleep... I was pretty well spent by the time I arrived.

[stripstrike]

I finished installing mine from Brad today, I was probably why he was late to VT. All were in great shape and I'll second the dead bee comment, very few in each box. I had a couple much more experienced beeks than I comment on the condition of them as being super also. Thirty seven queens direct released and 12 in their cages for another couple days. Thanks Brad.

[deknow]

Err...the packages looked good...very few dead bees.

At least 4 of the 15 I installed in one spot had virgins in the package...killing the mated queen that accounts for a.significant percentage of the cost of the package.

The post on beesource I responded to stated.that they were.coming from rossmans...which is a big reason I purchased them......not gardner/spell.

The worst of it is that the delivery was.moved.up a.week, and I was never.called, emailed, or pm. I got a call a.week before they were supposed to arrive that he was in a mall parkinglot 2 hours away.

Ken was fantastic, and took responsibility for transporting and caring for.the packages overnight. Brad owes you big time, you saved his Bacon.

Deknow

[bluegrass]

Deknow
Rossman's was unable to fill the order which is why these came from Gardner. Many of Rossman's orders are coming from Gardner this season. Fred is experiencing a queen shortage.

You are the first person I have ever had who complained about packages showing up early... I owned up to the oversight and apologized for it when I called you the next day. I asked if you needed anything more from me and you stated no. I would have gotten your packages to you or refunded your money on them one way or another. If you didn't want the packages all you had to do was say so and I had other people who would have bought them. It doesn't matter who you buy packages from... Unless you are handling them yourself things get missed...

Again: Sorry for the oversight. Hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me and get over it.

Brad

[deknow]

To be clear...virgins in the package are not the fault of the shipper (bluegrass)...except that experience with Rossmans (over many years...the supplier that the bees were supposed to come from) shows that this is a rare occurence from some suppliers.

I'm wondering if that is why there were attendants in the queen cages...perhaps the attendants keep the caged queen alive (a virgin in a package will usually result in a dead queen in the cage...but i've never had package bees with attendants in the queen cage). The supplier might know that they often have virgins in the package the way they do things, and adding attendants to the queen cage means that she doesn't arrive dead.

If you wait 10 days/2 weeks to check for laying you might not notice...the queens are not marked. If you check now, you might find bees drifted away from installed packages with virgins (presumably after killing the mated queen...unless they left for parts unknown).

I installed the rest with some brood to try and keep the bees put. Not an ideal situation.

What a waste of mated queens.

deknow

[deknow]

Dude, I sent you just over $1500 months in advance, and I didn't get what you advertised or what I paid for. You were unable to contact me to let me know they would be early or that the source had changed.

I did everything I was supposed to do...I sent you a check, I gave you good contact information, and I was prepared for the bees (and the pickup) when they were supposed to arrive.

You didn't contact me to let me know that they would be early (it takes having some equipment on hand to hive 20 packages).

You didn't let me know that the supplier had changed....I had no idea until I went to Ken's house the next day and saw the way the queen cages were installed...not how Rossman does it.

Despite the good appearances, there were virgins in many of the packages...something that can't be determined by looking at the package, or when installing (as there were attendants in the cages keeping the caged queens from being killed).

What is it you want me to get over? The truth about our transaction?

I sent you over $1500, and I think I have the right to expect to be told if the packages are going to be early...especially if I have to drive 2 hours to meet you (which I was perfectly happy to do).

If it does not matter who the packages come from, why did you specify they were coming from Rossmans in the first place? If the supplier can't keep virgins out of the packages it certainly matters...at least as far as the laying queens go.

The quality of the packages is owed to Gardner/Spell bee. I do my best to take good care of them in transit, but it takes a good package to start with if it is going to look good on arrival.

...so it _does_ matter who the supplier is, no? ...and if there are disease (or other problems) down the road, it also certainly matters.

Please don't tell me to "get over it". I doubt anyone is going to offer to send me mated queens to replace the ones that I paid for that were killed (or took off) due to virgins in the package....are they?

I will take a look again today and count up the installed colonies with virgins...but 25% (which is my low estimate) is way too high.

deknow

[bluegrass]

I am not going to continue this conversation with you. You are un-happy. I called to try and make it right and you refused. One un-happy customer out of over 300 I can live with.

For future reference the queens are guaranteed, even Fred Rossman sends extra queens with his orders as replacements... I had over 30 on hand. Out of my entire load I have only had two reports of dead queens and I quickly sent out replacements. I spot check most of the queens when I distribute the packages and found no dead. I didn't check them when we loaded Kens truck because it was dark.

FYI: The attendants are in the cages because they ship 1000s of queens per season. Rather than pack some with attendants and some without, they pack them all with.

[deknow]

...you did call and ask if I needed anything....you did not offer anything to "make it right) .


The queens were not dead in the cage....but the day after hiving several had one frame of bees with a virgin, and no mated queen. The virgins were in the packages and they either killed.the mated queens or the mated quuens took off with some of the bees.

This one complaint is coming from someone who sent you 1500 and who you could not contact.

Deknow

[xcugat]

Not to butt in to this discussion but How does one know that a package had Virgin queens in it. I had not heard of this occurring in a commercial Package business?

[jim lyon]

Not to butt in to this discussion but How does one know that a package had Virgin queens in it. I had not heard of this occurring in a commercial Package business?

No doubt someone had some overpopulated hives that had become swarmy, then shook them down without noticing the presence of recent cell hatching, it can happen to the best of package producers on occasion. Apparently after they were hived the mated queens either swarmed out or were killed by the virgins. It all squares with what Dean saw a day later as newly hived bees will go in search of queen pheromone somewhere so the result is a virgin with just a handfull of remaining bees. BTW leaving nurse bees in a caged queen in a package is a really poor practice.

[deknow]

Jim, generally we see.dead queens in cages when virgins are present in a package....presumably they are not being fed? Would attendants in the cage care.for the queen and keep her alive? That is what seems to have happened.

Deknow

[RiodeLobo]

BTW leaving nurse bees in a caged queen in a package is a really poor practice.

Why so?

[deknow]

Having nurse bees in the cage reduces the chance of acceptance. Taking them out of the cage is a pain. If the queen is in a package, the bees will care for her through the screen..no reason to have attendants in the cage. A mated.queen can easily be transported in her cage without attendants...if you put the cage in a apart sandwich bag or coffee cup.with lid, and put nurse bees (and food and water, depending on how long they will be in there) ....a bunch of cages.in a container of nurse bees is the best way to transport if the queens are.to be placed right away.

Deknow

[RiodeLobo]

Having nurse bees in the cage reduces the chance of acceptance.
Deknow

Did not know that, thanks.

[jadell]

I've never seen a package of bees arrive without attendants in the queen cages. That's how it's done here. I doubt it's a poor practice or it wouldn't be done by so many suppliers. Take everything on forums and the Internet with a grain of salt. I've never had a problem with acceptance either. I doubt I'm just always lucky.

[bluegrass]

...you did call and ask if I needed anything....you did not offer anything to "make it right) .

Deknow

Sorry I am not a mind reader. When I asked if you needed anything I was expecting you to speak up.... which is why I asked.... We could have easily handled this without dragging down an entire thread on the forum. I assumed when you said no that that meant we were square.

So to make this right I will publicly ask again? Do you need anything? I don't know what would have made you happy which is why I didn't specifically offer anything... I could have sent you extras, or queens, or a discount.... How am I supposed to know what to offer if when I ask your reply is NO?

[jim lyon]

I've never seen a package of bees arrive without attendants in the queen cages. That's how it's done here. I doubt it's a poor practice or it wouldn't be done by so many suppliers. Take everything on forums and the Internet with a grain of salt. I've never had a problem with acceptance either. I doubt I'm just always lucky.

Interesting.... let me rephrase. Its not the accepted practice as I have always known it. I am not an expert package producer but I have purchased, handled and installed 10's of thousands and I have never seen attendants in any of them. My assumption is that they can cause problems because they are often short lived and the dead bees get mired into the candy (though some come in packages without candy) and can cause problems with queen release. At the very least they are unnecessary and serve no purpose. When I have bought queens those that came in a "battery box" with free running attendants always had fewer dead queens than those that had attendants. Dont ever hold queens with attendants for more than a few days of that I am certain. Take it "with a grain of salt" if you wish but I handled truckload quantities from some of the best producers in the country for decades and I do know something about the issue.

[jim lyon]

Jim, generally we see.dead queens in cages when virgins are present in a package....presumably they are not being fed? Would attendants in the cage care.for the queen and keep her alive? That is what seems to have happened.

Deknow

That may well be the case, it sure introduces a whole new dynamic into the process and one that one way or the other probably wont end well thats for sure.

[xcugat]

Every package I ever got had attendants in the cage with the queen I thought most places did this?