Honey Bee Healthy ? Yea, Nay or "Meh"?

[WXBEE]

Thoughts on the use of Honey Bee Healthy? Good, bad, indifferent? I have 3 new packages that were installed Monday. All seems well, queens are out, they are taking the sugar syrup (w/vitamin C). Have a few fellow Beeks who swear buy it, others who shun it and a few who just scratch their heads. Thoughts?

[Nmace]

I just started and made homemade concentrate (recipe on this site) and am using it. I figured it did not cost too terribly much and I was going to use lemongrass oil for swarm traps anyway, so what the heck. I think that the least it does is make the house and syrup smell good. All three of my hives are sucking the syrup down, growing well and seem healthy.

[Andrew Dewey]

As a feeding stimulant it works well. I've always thought it had a snake oil like reputation with regards to other claims.

[Tia]

Luv it. I find that it helps the girls to build up very quickly. The only thing is, it will promote robbing, so it's a bad idea in boardman feeders. When I use it in early spring, I feed in hivetop feeders and feed all my hives, not just the ones doing poorly.

[Ddawg]

I'm new to bee keeping, but pretty much all I've read about it seems to be positive.
I installed a package April 18 feed 2 tsp in my quart boardman jar feeder on the first quart only. The bees are booming, great cone built out with 4 to 5 frames full of eggs, larve, and capped brood.
I can't say it was because of the Honey B Healthy, but it sure didn't hurt.

[robherc]

I don't really feed my bees much...have good flows here & they all started nice'n early this year Anywise, I do use a little HBH-type concentrate in the syrup I mist the bees with during my hive inspection; seems to me it helps interfere with any alarm pheromone wafting around...and it gets the bees interested in cleaning each other off quite quickly!

[Slow Modem]

I used a little in my syrup this spring and the bees seem very happy. It's like me taking Vit. C. I figure it might help, but it can't hurt.

[Michael Bush]

Any essential oils are antimicrobials and will kill the beneficial bacteria in the gut of the bee. The bacteria that should be in the gut protect against Nosema, AFB, EFB etc.

Here is a study of how that bacteria forms a film or barrier that protects the gut:

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0033188

Another on how the beneficial bacteria protect against pathogens:
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0033188

And here are reams of research data on beneficial microbes in the hive (all of which will be killed by essential oils):

http://beeuntoothers.com/index.php/b...lliam-archives

[Specialkayme]

If all the microbes and beneficial bacteria are killed by essential oils (HBH included) how is it that any hive that is fed HBH is not dead afterwords?

I don't remember reading any study that said HBH fed colonies had an increase in mortality rate.

[jim lyon]

Mike does cite some pretty detailed studies that among other things talk about the ill effects of even supplemental feeding. One needs to use some reason and common sense in all things beekeeping as things are never this black and white (you are a practical man right? ). My experience is that supplements such as HBH are essentially feeding stimulants and nothing else, bees love them and yes they will promote robbing. I don't think there is any real proof they are much more than that. I personally have quit treating for Nosema and perhaps coincidentally and perhaps not our bees have improved considerably. Essential oil mite treatments, though, have clearly been a savior for our operation. Knock them if you will but I will keep using them as needed as long as I continue to see the results that I have.

[Walliebee]

Why would anyone feed their bees a product that has "soap" ( Sodium Lauryl Sulfate) in it?

Forgot to mention the warning on the label... "If accidentally ingested seek medical help." lol

[woodedareas]

I am a new bee keeper and I have been using it this year. I must admit it does small good. As for any beneficial effects, I dobt that anyone actually knows and hopefully someone like Mr. Bush will help us with a more scientific approach. As a non experts, I think people like myself are mostly followers in raising bees. I will observe my hives this year and compare to last year when I did not use it. I have used the last of my supply and they will now have to live without it. After all its a recession, although they all seem to be working even if it is only for a month or so.

[magista]

There is no doubt there are beneficial organisms in the gut of the bee which are extremely important in honey bee health. However...

The studies linked are talking about prophylactic treatments (Tylan, etc...) not essential oils. There is nothing in either that state essential oils kill beneficial bacteria in the gut of the honeybee (if I missed something please point it out). If there is a study that is specific to essential oils killing beneficial micro-organisms in the gut of the honey bee please share it. Until then, it's pure conjecture.

[Vance G]

I can't disagree with a thing MB or JL said. I would add that using HBH or any EO routinely is foolish and damaging. Using it for a brood cycle to treat mites I heartily believe in, then it is time for the bees to recover and I hope they find the bee equivalent to yogurt to reenergize and supply proper gut fauna. Prolonged feeding of any of this stuff is damaging.

[Andrew Dewey]

HBH as a mite treatment? For Varroa, Thracheal or both? Are you serious and have you personally observed positive results?

[jim lyon]

MB and Specialkayme led the discussion towards other essential oils which would include thymol. Sorry, probably should have stayed closer to the intent of the thread which was HBH.

[johng]

I have used it and it does seem to help sometimes. But, most of the time I am only trying to feed a couple of hives. But, because it smells so good to the bees from the other hives start trying to rob them out. Normally it is the weaker hives I am trying to feed, so it gets ugly pretty fast. So now I do not use any kind of feeding stimulant. Keep that in mind when feeding the weak hives.

[Michael Bush]

>If all the microbes and beneficial bacteria are killed by essential oils (HBH included) how is it that any hive that is fed HBH is not dead afterwords?

Luckily there are bacteria everywhere and they eventually get replaced.

>I don't remember reading any study that said HBH fed colonies had an increase in mortality rate.

Compared to what? There is a large increase in mortality in recent years and it's not just essential oils that are disrupting the microbes. Fumidil, Tyloson, Terramycin, organic acids and essential oils all disrupt them.

>The studies linked are talking about prophylactic treatments (Tylan, etc...) not essential oils. There is nothing in either that state essential oils kill beneficial bacteria in the gut of the honeybee (if I missed something please point it out).

The evidence that essential oils are antimicrobial and will kill yeasts, fungus, bacteria and viruses is far to well know to need any additional evidence. But if that's what you need, try a search on "essential oils antimicrobial properties" on google and you'll get about half a million hits and many of them are scholarly articles on that property of essential oils.

[Specialkayme]

Luckily there are bacteria everywhere and they eventually get replaced.

So no harm done?

Compared to what?

Compared to feeding without essential oils or HBH.

[Michael Bush]

>So no harm done?

A lot of harm done. A lot of bee bread that doesn't ferment quite correctly and guts that get infested with things that should be there. Can they recover? Eventually, yes. How much harm is done? Hard to measure, but bees are collapsing all over and we are doing MANY things that disrupt the microbes. Often the right balance comes back. Often the right balance does not and something else gets a foothold that shouldn't. The point is the only reason they SURVIVE is that some of the microbes come back.

>>Compared to what?
>Compared to feeding without essential oils or HBH.

But there are already higher mortality rates and the causes are probably many. It makes it difficult for anyone to isolate one cause. But feeding sugar in general will disrupt the microbes by shifting the pH so different ones flourish. The HBH will actually kill them. Which is better?