Help! Splitting and its not working

**wolfpenfarm** · 05-02-2012, 08:03 AM

I split off a hive into a new hive. I tied up comb of brood into a new box and shook bees down into the box with their comb and brood and this morning i check and the bees are gone and all the brood comb is destroyed with larvae scattered all over the bottom. What is going on?

I was leaving them for a couple days before putting a new queen in.

**honeyman46408** · 05-02-2012, 08:08 AM

I tied up comb of brood into a new box

Not sure what you are saying?

this morning i check and the bees are gone and all the brood comb is destroyed with larvae scattered all over the bottom. What is going on?

My first thought is they were robbed.

**geebob** · 05-02-2012, 08:13 AM

Did you feed them? It sounds like they might not have had any way to feed themselves as you probably gave them a population of nurse bees and no foragers and no supplies.

My splits are 1 frame of brood (closed if I want to install a queen), 1 frame of honey/nectar, 1 frame of pollen, and 1 frame of foundation or drawn comb. I also feed them until I'm sure they are foraging.

**wolfpenfarm** · 05-02-2012, 08:15 AM

i gave the brood, pollen and honey.

**Live Oak** · 05-02-2012, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by wolfpenfarm

I split off a hive into a new hive. I tied up comb of brood into a new box and shook bees down into the box with their comb and brood and this morning i check and the bees are gone and all the brood comb is destroyed with larvae scattered all over the bottom. What is going on?

I was leaving them for a couple days before putting a new queen in.

When doing splits, I have learned the hard way to ensure the each split gets at least 3 frames of brood along with frames of honey and pollen. I try to make the frames of brood a mix of capped, uncapped and when available one queen or swarm cell. I also make sure that there is the same in the original hive just to make sure I have a fall back in the event that I accidentally move the queen to the split. (I have a very tough time finding the queen and my crappy eye sight does not help)

It is essential that you go back every few days to check on the split hive to ENSURE that after the capped and uncapped brood has hatch, that NEW brood is being layed. If not you will find LOTS of EMPTY former brood comb and no new brood. If this happens I place another frame of uncapped brood in the split and keep my fingers crossed.

In addition to this, I place the split hive right beside the original hive to avoid putting the split off hive into "reorientation mode". This maximizes the possibility that the split hive will forage the same areas as the original hive and NOT find anything that could be harmful to them.

There will always be a strong tendency for the worker/forager bees to drift between hives. To even out the numbers of worker bees, I swap the positions of the original and split hive or if they are too large I place a telescoping cover over the entrance of the original hive which prompts the returning foraging bees to enter and resupply and remain inside the split hive. You may have to do this for several weeks until the hive populations of forager bees evens out.

Lastly I place a Mannlake Max Pro Feeder inside the split hive in place of 2 frames filled with 2 gallons of sugar syrup treated with Mannlake Pro Health. Since I use 9 frame spacers, this leaves 7 frame for the split hive to work with in a pretty much fully brood box. This allows me to place another brood box with 9 frames of new foundation or drawn out empty comb (when I have it available).

This combination seems to be working very well and allows the nurse and other bees that remain inside the hive to concentrate of drawing out comb while allowing the forager bees to bring back much needed pollen as well as the usual nectar.

I have done 7 splits so far this year, and they have all been very successful. I am still learning and working on my PhD. in Beekeeping at the "University of Hard Knocks" but this seems to work for me.

After my last attempt at splits with a VERY experienced and well respected beekeeper who came by to instruct me, we lost EVER one of the 5 splits with 4 days and they almost immediately started dying in mass numbers. They were VERY good looking splits and in VERY good health. We moved each split to a new location and they apparently found something VERY toxic to them after they reoriented. Hence my reason for keeping my split next to the parent hive.

Everyone seems to do this a bit differently but this is what has worked well for me. Hope this helps.

**Live Oak** · 05-02-2012, 08:40 AM

Please delete. Duplicate post due to very slow web server.

**wolfpenfarm** · 05-02-2012, 08:46 AM

I am not splitting for supercedure. I have queens to put in already. I have to let set for a day or two for them to realize they are queenless.

I shook bees in yesterday put brood comb as well as pollen and honey. They should have stayed in. I was going to put a new queen in tomorrow.

**geebob** · 05-02-2012, 08:56 AM

Ok, sorry your original post just mentioned brood. Sounds like honeyman might have been right, or possibly something else invaded the hive. How large was the entrance? I try to give my splits no more than a 1/2" x 1" entrance.

**wolfpenfarm** · 05-02-2012, 09:00 AM

well its the 3/4 side of the bottom board. I am fixing to go out and cut some comb out of the topbar and put in with the other frames. I just need to keep em in for 2 days and i can put my queen in. Next trick will be to build a cage to shake into and set queen near it so they get used to her and then set in the hive as a new package

**Live Oak** · 05-02-2012, 09:16 AM

Doesn't really make much difference whether for supercedure or whatever. I am doing splits to make more colonies. I didn't realize you were using top bar hives. They can be very difficult to work with in my limited experience.

**cpm** · 05-02-2012, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by Live Oak

I didn't realize you were using top bar hives. They can be very difficult to work with in my limited experience.

What difference does it make whether you're splitting a TBH or Lang? A comb of brood is a comb of brood, a comb of honey is a comb of honey.

**Michael Bush** · 05-02-2012, 10:28 PM

http://www.bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm

Splits work much better if they are strong. An even split of a strong hive usually works out well. Both sides need all of the resources (Honey, pollen, brood) and the means to make a queen (open brood) and the one at a new location needs extra bees to make up for drift. Brush them in or swap places after a day or two.