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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Warrior, Alabama
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    1,069

    Default What are the legal issues in selling packages as nucs.

    I am getting tired of hearing of people buying "nucs" and they they talk about the nuc being "made up" while they were there and they having to release the queen. That is a package. It is not a nuc. A nuc is queen, bees and foundation that have been living together before you buy it. They are a small living hive colony.

    ? What are the legal issues involved in people selling small packages with some frames and calling them "Nucs"?
    Can that not be considered misrepresentation, or basically lying?

    Would a buyer have a legal standing against a seller who sold a "ackage with frames" as a nuc?
    Old Guy in Alabama

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Hampton CT
    Posts
    360

    Default Re: What are the legal issues in selling packages as nucs.

    I don't know the legal issues, there is a lot of skullduggery in advertising, that also pertains to bees. It always pays to establish a relationship with your supplier and ask a lot of questions. There also could be some confusion on the part of the beekeeper, especially if they are a beginner.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Calhoun Co, Texas, USA
    Posts
    1,310

    Default Re: What are the legal issues in selling packages as nucs.

    Your best recourse for that would be to call your state's apiary inspection service (i.e. your apiary inspector). In most states, they're the ones both making, AND enforcing, the regulations...so they'd be the ones who have all the say as to what a nuc "legally" is, and what can be done if someone misrepresents their "package plus combs" as a nuc.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    3,083

    Default Re: What are the legal issues in selling packages as nucs.

    I would think a "Nuc" would have to be legally defined, and as far as I know it is not. People can sell shabby products and about the only recourse anyone has is to stop buying from them. Problem is there are a dozen waiting right behind them to take their place. Buyer Beware.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    766

    Default Re: What are the legal issues in selling packages as nucs.

    Quote Originally Posted by jrbbees View Post
    ? What are the legal issues involved in people selling small packages with some frames and calling them "Nucs"?
    This is an interesting discussion. There are no standards as far as I know and I am not sure more regulation is the right approach. TO me it comes downs to ethics and education. What our and a few other regional clubs have done is to work to educate the customer and produce our own written standards on what is a nuc. We don't all agree on each point in the region, but the basic make up and quality is more or less agreed upon. It has had a pretty good ripple effect. There are also folks who package bees in March and April and let them grow into nucs and sell those as nucs which at that point technically they are. We also educate folks to ask about this- to ask how the nuc was made up, queen source, etc. Fortunately or unfortunately depending on how you look at it, the State inspections are for disease, not the quality of the nuc.
    karla

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Concrete, WA, USA
    Posts
    761

    Default Re: What are the legal issues in selling packages as nucs.

    I too see the issue and yeah it does seem a bit shaddy
    NUCs fall in a gray area of hive replacement or start up

    A Package of bees has a history of being this

    2,3,4,or 5 pounds of unrelated bees shaken from several different hives
    a Mated queen often from a seperate supplier and a can of feed
    all mixed a day before you get them
    No brood , no frames no comb, and a broodless period inwhich the mite count can be somewhat reduced

    a True nuc is a set number of frames containing Brood,pollen, honey, mother queen of workers bees on frames and a box
    most TRUE honest nuc sellers will have 4 frames of brood in a 4 frame box, 5 frames of brood in a 5 frame box and so on... they will NOT sell you a feeder or undrawn frames in a Nuc. But the Nuc has Brood, and does not see a drop in population as a package does

    A Common Nuc is same as a true Nuc but the queen is caged and supplied from a seperate queen supplier - this is the "Common" nuc we see today
    problems with this is the queens DO have release issues and there is a time delay of brood - which shows up about a month after you get them - them builds up - so they are a bit slower then the true nucs --- often times these types of nucs are really just a 3,4,5 frame split sold as nucs


    as with anytime you get a frame style of bees - you risk AFB, Mites, Drone comb or other pest and issues --
    so yeah its a buyer beware issue and so i hope that my list of things will help others make a list of questions to ask when they order bees in the future
    Doing the Right things Right
    http://thevalleysbuzz.webs.com/

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    4,167

    Default Re: What are the legal issues in selling packages as nucs.

    I would say the person is lying, & has enough beekeeping experience to know he's lying.
    Ethically wrong.
    Dan

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    moravia,ny
    Posts
    1,227

    Default Re: What are the legal issues in selling packages as nucs.

    a nuc means that the bees are on comb. normally it means that the queen has been laying and established. I think that a lot of beginners call a package a nuc so maybe your information is not correct.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Calhoun Co, Texas, USA
    Posts
    1,310

    Default Re: What are the legal issues in selling packages as nucs.

    I think the biggest issue here isn't what people are sellings as a "nuc" nearly so much as whether the buyer knows BEFORE ordering/traveling to pick it up, exactly what they are buying. I think if someone advertises a "nuc" and clearly describes that it's going to be 4 random frames of brood, with X amount of bees, and a caged queen, then that's fine...they haven't misrepresented anything. However, if someone drives 2hrs to go pick up a "nuc," and finds out AFTER they get there that the "nuc" is what I just described, then that's a bit shady, and whomever's selling it needs to have a nice write-up about them published in the "Consumer Reports" section of this forum (among other things)!

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