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Behavior around swarm traps

19K views 56 replies 9 participants last post by  minz 
#1 ·
I put a trap in an area where I had seen bee activity before. Single used deep with three well used frames of comb. Today, I saw a lot of bees coming in and entering the box. Not regular hive activity, but either investigative, or local bees harvesting some tidbits. No honey in the frames. Can you differentiate between the two behaviors? What would I look for if there is an observable difference? Seems like the bees are checking things out but might just be trying to locate the "goodies".
Thoughts
Thanks
 
#2 ·
You could watch how they take off...if they're arriving "light" with no pollen on their legs, and leaving "heavy" or laden with pollen, they're thieves...otherwise there's a decent chance they're scouts.

OR...you could wait a couple three days, check on 'em again & if you see normal hive activity, they were scouts...lol
 
#6 ·
Scouts fly around in circles and go in and out the entrance. Some are checking the cracks between box and lid. Wrestling and fighting is a good sign. Killing each other is an even better sign.Lots of bees camping out overnight is a good sign. Scouting can go on for weeks before a swarm arrives. I have seen all of these signs and still had a swarm fail to appear.Once they are established the flight is straight in and out. Pollen entering means the queen is laying.
 
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#7 ·
Odfrank,
Sounds like they scouting vs stealing. Interesting, I noticed the wrestling and fighting. Any thoughts on what that's about? Maybe they are arguing over what color the new curtains will be LOL :) Would a second box nearby increase chances? I'll put a second one up anyway for any after swarms. This and raising Queens are hands down two of the most fascinating/fun things in beekeeping.
The bees in the swarm I got last year,(different location) were all the same color and markings. The bees scouting this box are mixed. Their are dark bees with these. I guess that means they were somebodies bees at one time. Could we still call the survivors? I guess there is no real way to know.
Thanks
 
#8 ·
Dark bees, often, are feral survivors, as they really haven't been imported in any significant numbers for over a hundred years. That said, I've been informed that Russel Apiaries sells them now.
Anywise, my guess about the fighting thing is that bees from @ least 2 different "mother hives" are scouting it & arguing over who gets to swarm into that location...so the other box might be a grand idea :D
 
#10 ·
I watched the trap for a while this morning. Lots of activity. I had to leave at noon. There was 20 some bees around, in and out most of the time. This box is on top of a building in the woods at a park where I work part time. My daughter and her friend were at the playground with the friends' daughter. My daughter calls me about three oclock and tells me a swarm of bees came out of a bush by the playground, flew over and headed into the woods. I coaxed her into going and looking at the box. She said there were bees around but the box but the swarm was flying around in the trees. Hard to say but I'm hopeful. I'll find out tomorrow.:)
I put a second box about 75 feet away from the other. The bees were checking it out within the hour. Amazing
 
#11 ·
Bow wow wow yipee yo, yipee yea!!!! Bees went in:) Checked today. Behavior much different. Bees going and coming like a "regular" hive. Guards at the entrance. Incoming are heavy. No pollen but might be a couple of days before the queen gets going depending on mother or daughter. It was light rain as well this a.m. Swap them into a regular hive tomorrow maybe to free up my swarm box and reset it. Might be some after swarms:) Wish I could find out where they came from. Couldn't be too far. They clustered on a tree nearby. This is like fishing for a big fish and catching one. Actually, it is better:)
 
#12 ·
Not so sure I'd recommend moving them so soon...especially if you're planning to put the "regular hive" anywhere within about 3 miles of where you caught them. It would probably be best to leave them in there long enough to get a little open brood going, that way the open brood will help "anchor" them in their new home when you move 'em.

Aside from that, CONGRATULATIONS on your first catch! :banana:
(now's the time to start building about 50 more traps, right?)
 
#13 ·
You are correct and good advice. I wasn't going to move them. Just transfer them. It s a nice swarm trap. Plus, I'm moving to foundation less. So I want to get them comb drawing fools busy. Might take a frame of brood with me too.
I have a couple others out and about:) I love it.
Thanks
 
#15 ·
>Plus, I'm moving to foundation less

Moving bait swarms with fresh foundationless combs is a recipe for collapse.
 
#16 ·
You can move hives with fresh, foundationless combs (I've done it myself, actually), but odfrank's right overall... The new foundationless combs are VERY pliable, and I do sometimes have 1-2 that get damaged, even when being "very careful" with them (the road always seems bumpier when you have a hive full of newly drawn foundationless comb in the back), so be sure to make an informed decision & check the amount of attachment your combs have before transporting any hive.
 
#17 · (Edited)
I thank you for derailing a potential train wreck.:) My set up is this: I use deep frames with a guide/starter piece, usually a wood strip like Popsicle sticks, with four lines of fishing line. I am going to give that to them on Monday and transfer them to my hive set ups. any wax comb into frames for them affix. I do plan to leave the the hive there for a while and I understand I did not indicate that. Probably a good thing so the lesson was learned from others:)

I do thank you all.
Rick
 
#19 ·
May I make a suggestion... In your swarm traps if you place the comb against one wall, and put one or two frames of foundation, (even if it is multiple year old foundation) and I always put two, I don't have them dropping comb in the swarm boxes. They rarely move beyond the foundation to draw comb. Try it.

cchoganjr
 
#20 ·
I keep my swarm boxes full of top bars, then all combs get dropped nicely on the bars, since you're wanting to go foundationless, you can use your foundationless frames in place of my top bars to accomplish the same effect. ... that way the bees move in, and simply turn it into a hive full of nicely drawn combs for you...easy as pie to transfer too :D
 
#21 ·
I just noticed yesterday bees checking out my swarm trap. There were about 10 bees flying in and out, flying around the sides and checking out the gaps.

I decided to put up another trap just in case my one hive is planning on swarming - that way there will be two choices for them - and hopefully one of my traps is better suited than anywhere else! Currently, the only thing in them is frames with undrawn foundation and some lemon grass oil.

Congratulations on your trap working. (And yeah, as others said, put in frames so they can make their comb on the frames.
 
#22 ·
I understand and appreciate the suggestions.
Just MHO, but this is a lure, not a guarantee. I'm not putting these things anywhere near known hives. I'm not intersted in some body elses bees. Looking for feral stock. No guarantee there either but primitive areas, more or less, are the locations. Having said that, it would take a lot of resources to fully equip a lot of traps fully with frames of any sort. I'm thinking too, what about theft? If I have to cut and mount some comb, I'm good with that.
Pa beek,,,,,just my experince has been traps close to my hives do not capture swarms from my hives. You need to put them on someone elses property several hundred yards (at least) away. Good luck:)
 
#23 ·
Rick 1456 In my experience, you don't have to fully equip your bait hives with frames. I use two drawn brood combs, and two starter foundation. Start by putting the two brood combs against one wall, then the two foundation. Leave the center open. Rarely have they gone beyond the two foundation frames to drop comb of their own, because this would split the colony.

Why not put your hives where they may be productive, feral or someone else's bees. When you catch a swarm you don't know for sure if it is a feral hive or came from another's hives. Either way, you have a new colony. And the bees can be moved and the bait hive set up again very quickly.

I feel it is a good idea to have swarm boxes near your own hives, and quite often bees will go into them. From 3 feet to 100 yards will get you swarms. What we may not know for sure is, where they came from. It is known that swarming bees are attracted to areas where there are other bees. So, that swarm might not be yours, but came to your bees and settled into a box very near your bee yard. Might be feral, might not.

At least in my area, swarm box theft has never been a problem. I did have one episode of 3 hives being stolen from a bee yard in 1998. But never one of my swarm boxes. Of course, I only use old 10 frame deeps, ready to be thrown away, for swarm boxes, and perhaps no one would want them. But, they work.

cchoganjr
 
#24 ·
I think the putting of the comb to the sides with starter in between is the way to go from now on. Makes sense. Wish it had come to me in one of my bee dreams doh :)
I had five boxes set up at my hive yard last year. Two swarms. One I actually was able to follow and watched it go into hollow branch of a very large oak about 500 yards down the road. The cluster was too high for me to retrieve. So, it didn't work for me. But your advise having them around is well taken and I do have an old box set up hoping to catch a swarm from that swarm:) Most of the few boxes I have set up are old 10 framers but they are the best for luring them in and don't want to loose them. I have a couple that I put together from wooden wine boxes. Certain ones will hold frames if you scab a ledge for them to rest on. Haven't caught any in one of those yet. Still early though. Someone will probably steal those thinking there is wine in them. Hummm, may have paint them camouflage :)
Anyway, it is all good. Thanks and happy hunting!
 
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