Suggestions on package failures?

**martinvermillion64** · 04-22-2012, 01:11 PM

One last thing didn't smoke, spray sugar syrup or even have a veil on. Good Italian bees from Walter T. Kelly. Think the more you do to them the harder it makes it for you and the bees. Opinion only all situations can and will be different. Don't recommend going without a veil unless you are very comfortable around bees.

**LeonardS** · 04-22-2012, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by martinvermillion64

I installed a package about a week ago. Prefer to place the queen in the middle between two frames w/ drawn comb if possible. Then place a empty deep on top put the open cage on its side in the empty deep. Never shook.smacked,etc the package. All the bees were out with exception of maybe fifty in about one hour. Removed the cage and empty deep put on feeder, cover, lid and done deal. This way all frames are in except the one that goes where the queen cage is currently at. This is replaced when queen is out and her cage is removed that is unless you direct release eleminating the need to leave out the one frame. I had great results doing it this way it dosen't stress or injure the bees more than the already are. There are many ways this is mine. You may have better luck with a different method. Good Luck no matter how it is done.

Sounds like a good method! Thanks for the tip.

**Andrew Dewey** · 04-22-2012, 02:23 PM

I like the sound of martinvermillon64's method for package installs. It seems gentler on the bees and perhaps it is just my anthropomorphizing "instincts" but gentler seems better. As for why one package would keep trying to bug out, I'd try to figure out what they are objecting to in their new home. The boxes you've said are identical to the other hive where the bees are staying put. Is there anything else that is different? Thinking aloud, frame styles, plastic vs wax foundation, frames sprayed with sugar water or not, undrawn vs drawn frames, pest issues, screen bottom board vs solid bottom board... This list is not exhaustive by any means but something is causing the bees to want to leave. Let us know if you figure it out. Oh - And as an after thought - screening the opening would have been my preference instead of shutting it with a solid object.

**martinvermillion64** · 04-22-2012, 02:51 PM

One way to at least keep the queen in while letting the workers do their thing is cut a piece of queen excluder and place it over the entrance use a couple of small "frame nails" to hold it on the hive. This will at the very least keep the queen home. The only use I have for excluders.
All of this still don't know why your bees were not comfortable? Seems like you did well can't figure only guess. Best guess, !00% natural no spray sugar b-healthy just put them in gently and they will take care of the rest. I add nothing other than pure cane sugar mixed with pure,very pure water and never spray it only in the feeder untill the don't need it anymore. We tend to try too hard only to make things more complicated at least that was my old way of doing it.Probably would never close hive completly unless moving them from place to place. Methods do vary greatly though this is simply my take on it.

**LeonardS** · 04-22-2012, 04:16 PM

Good ideas, I will give that a try.

**mrobinson** · 04-23-2012, 09:26 AM

I have TBHs and direct-released the queen: (1) pull cage out, shake attendants into hive, check for live queen, unroll the carrying strap, set the cage inside. (2) Dump bees. Put box on ground outside entrance. (3) Retrieve cage, remove non-candy cork with a jackknife blade or pin, (optional: smear shut with your own fresh dry marshmallow), hold your finger over the opening as you place the cage screen-up gently on floor of hive (or on bees), observing that she's getting out as you close up. If you're really concerned that she'll fly, very lightly mist with water-only to dampen her wings. (Sparingly...!)

You don't have to wonder if she got out, and she's not sitting where she'll interfere with any comb-building. If you used a candy-plug it was your candy and it's just marshmallow, meant to buy you a minute or two.

I went in after only three days to retrieve the cage; that was quite unnecessary. The bees were ignoring the cage, and me.

I'm new too ... mine is not "the voice of authority," but it worked.

**camero7** · 04-23-2012, 02:24 PM

I rip the screen off the side of the package and shake the bees into the hive. I direct release the queen if I know the package has been together at least 3 days.

**LeonardS** · 04-23-2012, 03:24 PM

Cam, I probably won't rip the side off because they want the package returned, but I still appreciate the response on what works for you!

**mrobinson** · 04-23-2012, 08:21 PM

I've heard it said that the process of getting the bees out of a package is like trying to get a pick out of a guitar.

I can relate to that...

**martinvermillion64** · 04-23-2012, 09:02 PM

When I have put the entire cage in they climb right quiet fast actually plus all the dead bees and debris in the bottom are not shaken into the hive. I guess if there were a hundred of them to install the method would be very different. May consider ripping the side from the cage and pounding them in as fast as possible but I doubt I would do it even on a large scale. That is just me lots of different methods work well. Good luck no matter how you do it. Figure they are shaken and moved enough before they ever arrive.

**Michael Bush** · 04-23-2012, 10:43 PM

>I've heard it said that the process of getting the bees out of a package is like trying to get a pick out of a guitar.

The pick doesn't hold on...

**RayMarler** · 04-24-2012, 12:41 AM

LeondardS writes...
The packages were from Iowa and the queens from California.

So, I'm reading this as 2 queenless packages from Iowa and then the 2 queens from California.

The queens were not inside the packages any time before installing? The bees had no chance to claim the queen before hiving? Most packages with queens have the queen in the package of bees at least an hour before they are hived and usually quite a bit longer time. This in conjuction with the below paragraph could have been an issue perhaps?

Your description of the ordeal makes me think there was a queen with the bees outside the hive, and the queen you bought inside the hive. Some times when making up packages a virgin queen or queen will slip by and get in the package as it was being made up. It would cause the situation you describe, but there could be other reasons as well. Best of luck to your next packages.

**LeonardS** · 04-24-2012, 07:10 AM

Ray, the beekeeper I bought the packages from, purchased the queens from California. The queens were in a queen cage that was inside the packages for 2 days before I put the queen and bees in the hive. They had a couple of days to get used to the queen and they had the queens released in 24 hours after installing the packages.

I am picking up two more packages on Thursday evening and plan to install them on Friday.