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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    Lakeland, FL USA
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    784

    Default Would you all recommend an inside cut-out or outside trap-out?

    .

    I just went on a call today to see about doing a hive-removal. I think it's obvious that this cannot be done on the outside unless a trap-out is used. However, I think a trap-out would be a challenge because of the height and the soffit probably has multiple entrances spread out.

    You could hear the bees buzzing slightly behind the wall directly under the window AND I could also hear them behind the angled walls beside the window. Not sure if the side angled walls were just echoing the hive under the window or if it actually extends that far up and around.

    I was able to get into a crawl space that was even-height with the room that ended up right next to that room. There were no sign of bees in that area. She said that they had an attic directly above the room, but I didn't get up there, and frankly, I'll cross that bridge if even needed at that time - but I'm sure they most-likely aren't up there - or at least the bulk of them are behind that wall.

    So anyhow, I told the lady that de-construction will probably have to be done and that I would not be responsible for any of the destruction or subsequent re-construction. She was fine with that.

    Also, her husband is in the construction industry (he was not there) so we both agree that she consult him before any decisions are made one way or another.

    Soooooooooo, how would some of you approach this? Keep in mind, I helped a much more experienced person on a removal that was under a mobile home before, so I am pretty new to this - especially when demolition is involved.














  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Adair Co, Oklahoma
    Posts
    120

    Default Re: Would you all recommend an inside cut-out or outside trap-out?

    If the bees have been in the wall long enough to build comb and start brood, you dont want to trap them out and leave the brood and honey in the walls. If that is the case I would say cutout is the only real option.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Lakeland, FL USA
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    784

    Default Re: Would you all recommend an inside cut-out or outside trap-out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanisr View Post
    If the bees have been in the wall long enough to build comb and start brood, you dont want to trap them out and leave the brood and honey in the walls. If that is the case I would say cutout is the only real option.
    I asked her how long they had been there. She says she thinks less than a year. They probably didn't notice them immediately, however.

    In Florida, these hives expand fast because of all the flow most of the year.

    I'd be willing to bet that there is much honey and brood back there.

    But yes, I'm leaning toward the cut-out as being the only viable option.

    What could be the worse that could happen if they just left the hive there?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Fayetteville, Arkansas
    Posts
    203

    Default Re: Would you all recommend an inside cut-out or outside trap-out?

    if you don't cut out the comb and it's supplies more bees will come, maybe not this year but next year for sure. It all needs to be cutout and then sealed up correctly on the outside.

    Sully

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Dripping Springs, TX USA
    Posts
    296

    Default Re: Would you all recommend an inside cut-out or outside trap-out?

    I do a lot like this one! Use a door-knob hole saw/bit for your drill, and go through the soffit to get a confirmed visual of NO bees there. Sound can travel many ways inside walls. Check the soffit first. It's an easy fix if they aren't there. If not there, then go inside using the same exploratory tool. Both a small light and dental mirror will aid in looking through any hole of this type.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Macoupin,Illinois,USA
    Posts
    355

    Default Re: Would you all recommend an inside cut-out or outside trap-out?

    i wouldn't be afraid of an inside cutout,just seal the door to that room super tight,if u can locate them ,that beats working off a ladder or lift,and drywall cost less than aluminum soffit and fascia

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    965

    Default Re: Would you all recommend an inside cut-out or outside trap-out?

    Since the bees have already found their way inside, I sure wouldn't try a trap out. The residents are likely to get more excitement than either you or they bargained for it you do.

    Find the bees, then use a stud finder (or visble nail heads, if any) to locate the studs on either side and use a razor knife to cut the sheetock away.

    Be sure to put a cloth down over the whole floor first (plsstic tarp will slip on carpet).
    I'd hang a tarp or sheet over the doorway to contain dust and bees as well.

    Have fun. Enjoy getting to know your new bees.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Gaston, SC
    Posts
    260

    Default Re: Would you all recommend an inside cut-out or outside trap-out?

    to locate the bees, go down to Grainger and get an infrared temperature gun (available for as low as $75 or as high as $1200). with that you can scan the walls and where the temp goes up a couple of degrees, concentrate in that area,,,

    If you can afford it, a borescope inspection camera (as low as $170). that way you can drill a 1/2 inch hole insert the lens and look around.

    this will pinpoint the location of the bees, let you see how big the swarm is, and do MINIMAL damage.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Lakeland, FL USA
    Posts
    784

    Default Re: Would you all recommend an inside cut-out or outside trap-out?

    Those are all such excellent suggestions.

    The gentleman who I helped on the last removal says he has one of those temperature guns. Hopefully he will agree to help out on this removal as well.

    The lady who owns the house said she used to have access to one of those borescope cameras, but she gave it back to someone....darnit.

    I really do like the idea of using those tools because I don't want bees flying around the room unnecessarily while inspecting/locating them.....and, of course, as mentioned, it minimizes the damage.

    These forums are spectacular.....thanks all.

    .

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Kingsport, Sullivan, Tennessee
    Posts
    782

    Default Re: Would you all recommend an inside cut-out or outside trap-out?

    Why is an outside cutout out of the question for you? Do you really want to smoke up that bedroom? I have a similar cutout to do soon (already have the deal signed). I'd rather go through the bedroom, also but for the smoke in the house. -james

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Lakeland, FL USA
    Posts
    784

    Default Re: Would you all recommend an inside cut-out or outside trap-out?

    .

    And regarding the studs, is it a good possibility that if they are behind the wall under the window, would the chances be that they'd be confined between two studs? I'm not so sure because - as I mentioned before - I even heard them on those side upward angles. I hope that was just sound traveling instead of them actually being all up in those too.

    But looking at the window from the outside, there sure is a lot of space under the window going down the roof to the soffit. That's a lot of space that would be back and below the wall that's inside the house.

    If you look at the picture I posted above of the outside window that's up at it's level, you can see shingles that are whitish in color. I bet the hive follows that pattern approx underneath....but I'm probably stating the obvious.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Lakeland, FL USA
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    784

    Default Re: Would you all recommend an inside cut-out or outside trap-out?

    Quote Originally Posted by dixiebooks View Post
    Why is an outside cutout out of the question for you? Do you really want to smoke up that bedroom? I have a similar cutout to do soon (already have the deal signed). I'd rather go through the bedroom, also but for the smoke in the house. -james
    That's a fantastic point. Anyone else have any comments regarding this?

    I just don't think going through the outside will provide enough access to how far up/back they are. I mean, I suppose it's possible that they could be contained within just the immediate soffit area, but even so, it would be tough to have enough room to work in such a confined space up on a 30 foot extension ladder.

    The smoke is a valid point. But you know, I would suppose it could be done without smoke.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Gaston, SC
    Posts
    260

    Default Re: Would you all recommend an inside cut-out or outside trap-out?

    I dont know how much you charge for a cut out,, but that fee could pay for your IR thermometer and borescope,, or at least defray the cost,, and I NEVER NEVER NEVER use smoke in swarm removal,, it sends the queen hiding,,

    also,, I agree with the suggestions of using plastic sheeting on the carpet,, sealing the room,, and I even use a canvas paint drop cloth to try to catch as much sticky stuff (washes easily) as possible,, no sense in upsetting a home owner,,

    when all is cleaned up,, advise the home owner to keep the door closed,, and that evening go back and gather the last of the colony,, you will find them clustered around THE HIDING QUEEN!!!!

    call them the next day,, ensure they are happy,,

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Warrior, Alabama
    Posts
    1,067

    Default Re: Would you all recommend an inside cut-out or outside trap-out?

    On ebay you can order a bore sight camera on a cable you can put through a 1/2" whole for under $40. bucks. use it with your laptop computer. Got to ebay. search: inspection spy camera

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Cable-Wi...item2564bfa801
    Old Guy in Alabama

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Ft Myers, Fl 33967
    Posts
    161

    Default Re: Would you all recommend an inside cut-out or outside trap-out?

    Instead of smoke try sugar water spray. Then suck them up with a bee vac.
    Regards
    Joe

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Landing, NJ, USA
    Posts
    199

    Default Re: Would you all recommend an inside cut-out or outside trap-out?

    In response to #3 post- if you just leave them. This goes back to the 60's or so but we had a hive of bees in my parents house between the porch roof and the interior ceiling. It gave no trouble nor were there any stains. Of course this is before mites, beetles, wax worms neonics and who knows what else. So the minimum, assuming robust genetics, would be no trouble at all except an interesting day each spring when they swarm.

    On the other hand- you are in Florida so the worst could be that they become Africanized and one day they come pouring out and kill somebody.

    From outside it looks like there is a fair likely-hood that before you reach the extent of the hive you will reach either roof or brick facing. Neither of which I would want to pay to repair. Read Cleo Hogan's posts on trapouts and decide if that will work for you. I doubt that that method results in as many desperate bees looking for a way back in as a cone trap does. If I had to repair the damage I would prefer that your attack came from inside the house but I would hope you were a neat worker.
    Bill

    Has anyone investigated foam in place insulation as a way to encapsulate the remains of a trapped out, robbed out hive and as a way to deprive the space to bees that might arrive later?
    Bill
    Last edited by whiskers; 04-19-2012 at 08:10 PM. Reason: addition

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    NYC, NY, USA
    Posts
    7

    Default Re: Would you all recommend an inside cut-out or outside trap-out?

    Quote Originally Posted by beegeorge View Post
    to locate the bees, go down to Grainger and get an infrared temperature gun (available for as low as $75 or as high as $1200). with that you can scan the walls and where the temp goes up a couple of degrees, concentrate in that area,,,

    If you can afford it, a borescope inspection camera (as low as $170). that way you can drill a 1/2 inch hole insert the lens and look around.

    this will pinpoint the location of the bees, let you see how big the swarm is, and do MINIMAL damage.
    The IR Gun on Ebay $20 )Including Shipping http://www.ebay.com/itm/200626065687...84.m1427.l2649


    Borescope USB to hook to laptop also $20 on ebay
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/2M-Mini-USB-...item43ae5e997f

    Also trick take a wire hanger.. clip the end to a point then attach to a drill... us it as a drill bit with the sheet rock.. when you pul it out see if honey on end of tip.. if not move on... will leave smallest holes that can be filled with joint compount very easy..

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Lakeland, FL USA
    Posts
    784

    Default Re: Would you all recommend an inside cut-out or outside trap-out?

    Thanks so much for those finds with the equipment on ebay.

    I am going to call the lady tomorrow and see if she'll pony-up around 400 bucks for this removal. If she will, I will gladly invest in those pieces of equipment, especially if I might be doing more of them in the future.

    Y'all think that would be a bit steep considering we WON'T be doing the subsequent repair work?

    Even without having to do the subsequent repairs, such a removal ain't no walk in the park. There are a lot of logistical problems with this - least of them being bees swarming inside the closed-off room as the removal unfolds. If it's not done right, total bedlam could ensue.

    By the way, how on EARTH does one go about rounding up each and every little bee that remains in the bedroom? I will be vacuuming for days. Crap, they may have to move their furniture out of that room before we begin, I would imagine. What about air vents? Lord knows I want the ac vent on and open while we're doing this.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Lakeland, FL USA
    Posts
    784

    Default Re: Would you all recommend an inside cut-out or outside trap-out?

    Quote Originally Posted by jredburn View Post
    Instead of smoke try sugar water spray.
    Regards
    Joe
    I already had that ready today....but it didn't start yet.

    Thanks.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Landing, NJ, USA
    Posts
    199

    Default Re: Would you all recommend an inside cut-out or outside trap-out?

    Get a piece of window screen, cut it to fit over the air conditioning duct and tape or otherwise fix it on. Enough air will get through so you don't expire and bees won't fit through. Good point though, probably wouldn't please the customer if bees start spraying out of the ducts in the rest of the house. Cover the return with screen too. One has to imagine bees spraying through the house, possible three stooges bit.
    Bill

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