calling all wood workers (NEED HELP)

[minz]

I don’t know how I could do it without a table saw, everything else I could cheap. My old craftsman table saw gets a lot of use and after reading these threads I picked up a Grizzly with a 3 hp 220 volt motor off of Craig’s list. Yeah it was $400 but the blade does not stop like the old one does (but flings the wood across the garage at high speeds LOL). I also got a dato set that was recommended last Christmas here by Oshlun (the Vermont American set only burned its way through). Now I am a two saw family! I could have purchased a lot of parts for what I am into the equipment for but what would I do with my ADD/OCD? Just spin around in circles.

[BeeCurious]

After reading through most of this thread, I can say that I now feel about making woodenware the way I feel about sports: There's a whole world of problems out there that I don't have to pay ANY attention to! I buy pre-cut parts and assemble them with an air stapler, wire pliers, hammer, and nails; all that saved time can go to appreciating my bees ... and other parts of life.

I agree. I build accessories and rabbet jointed nuc boxes but I don't have the time, patience, or desire to do box joints, and frames? Forget it! If someone isn't familiar with the basics I'm not sure they will find pleasure in building frames and boxes.

Especially when one of the objectives is to have tighter joints than purchased frames/boxes.

[shadow-cw]

Hi all,
I don't have any pics to post but I'm doing hand cut through dovetails on my boxes. There alot simpler than they appear. Mine are not perfect but I'm still learning. Here's a video that helped me learn how to do them, the guy has it broken down in 4 or 5 videos: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EjKMXFOtUWM

[Joseph Clemens]

Well, my budget is usually very tight and it was tight when I went to purchase my band saw. I purchased a Craftsman Model 21400, 1/3 horsepower, 10" band saw. I have now had it for about four years, and it has served me fairly well. Until recently I had only used traditional carbon steel blades. And a few months ago I had to replace the band saw tires (they hold the blade on the wheels and provide the friction to drive the blade). Anyway, the carbon steel blades were okay to resaw frame components from 2x4 stock, but the cuts were rough, often the blades would wander, creating inaccurate curved surfaces, and adjusting tension (to increase beam strength) to correct this, often resulted in early blade failure. Yesterday, Saturday, 12 May 2012, I obtained a Lenox Tri-Master carbide toothed blade of 1/2" width (widest my Craftsman saw will accommodate). It's amazing, cuts are smooth, quick, and very accurate - no more wavy or inaccurate cuts or rough surfaces on frame components. It was also fairly easy to install and adjust the new blade, tensioning it for good beam strength (keeping the blade straight while cutting). I used less tension than I had with the carbon steel blades and yet had enough beam strength to easily cut my frame parts more smoothly and accurately than I was ever able to with carbon steel blades, and word is that these blades can be tightened much tighter still, with no concern that it will cause their early failure - so this blade should have good lasting power (time will tell).

[psfred]

I suspect that many people think their band saws are no good, particularly the "budget" ones from say Harbor Freight, when the problem is the blade.

I don't know why there are so many junk blades out there, or why manufacturers put junk blades on an expensive saw, but you can "rescue" a band saw with a good blade. A poorly cutting blade requires excessive pressure to cut, causing all the blade wander and rough cutting, while a super sharp blade simply slices off the wood at very low pressure, leaving the blade straght, the cut straight, and uses much less power.

I'm in the market for one (wasting too much wood making frames with a table saw) and plan to get Lennox blade when I do. I've heard that the WoodSlicer blades are good too, but welded carbide tooth is the way to go. Expensive to start out, but they will last years, if not decades, in soft wood like pine!

Peter

[robherc]

I'm glad you guys have the $$$ for a $135+ bandsaw blade, lol...I have to budget for my cheap $10 "Bosch" blades from Lowes. Anywise, on that note, I was searching for bandsaw blades last night and found that sawblade.com seems to have some quality bandsaw blades for FAR less than other suppliers (including triple-chip carbide tipped blades sized for my 14" Harbour Freight saw @ under $80). I plan to order a couple of their $13 and $20 blades for my saw, and see if they solve my "staple problem," 'cuz having to replace my blade every time I miss a staple's getting old, as is having the blade wander around & "follow the grain" no matter how much tension I put on it

[psfred]

How many $20 blades does it take to buy a $135 blade, and how often do you need to replace them? The carbides will dull eventually sawing staples (I've dulled a couple table saw blades on nails, too), but they, unlike carbon steel blades, can be re-sharpened a time or two, and should last you, staples aside, for several years of daily use in hardwoods before you need to sharpen them.

As always, you either pay up front or pay as you go....

If you don't want to swing the whole amount for a carbide tooth blade, at least get a bi-metallic blade with HSS teeth. A staple will dull them much more than a carbide, but they are vastly better than carbon steel.

Peter

[MichaelShantz]

I have an old Delta bandsaw and the best blade I have found for nice straight ripping is a 3/4 inch wide (keeps it from wandering), 3 teeth per inch (I can actually resharpen it with a Dremel grinder), bimetal (? or high carbon steel) blade. I resharpened that blade 3 or 4 times before it finally cracked and broke. Maybe I should try a carbide tipped blade and see if it is worth paying 5+ times more.

[robherc]

If you don't want to swing the whole amount for a carbide tooth blade, at least get a bi-metallic blade with HSS teeth.

Absolutely agreed. I just phoned the supplier & will be trying out a Cobalt-steel bi-metal variable-tooth-pitch blade (the $20 blade, $29 after S&H actually) that's engineered for cutting ferrous & titanium alloys for my next blade. I'm hoping that one will last until I can talk my wife into letting me invest in the $80 triple-chip carbide blade that, in wood with only occasional staples, should last me until the saw falls apart (at least, being that it's intended for cutting monel & exotic alloys, it had better last forever in pine)

But yes, the general moral of the story is don't buy bandsaw blades from a hardware store; they may be less $$$ per blade than ordering from somewhere that knows what they're selling, but you're getting a blade that'll make ANY bandsaw look bad (a lesson that I've now learned the hard way)

@MichaelShantz yes, the 1/2" and thicker blades help tremendously with reducing creep, but I'm finding that the blade material, and craftsmanship are also hugely important considerations.


So, now that we have the blades sorted, has anyone tried the "roller guides" or "cool blocks" in their saw? If so, how much actual improvement have you noticed from using them? I'm gonna go out & say that ANYTHING has to work better than the little plastic blocks that came with my HFT saw, but are the roller-guides really enough better to justify spending $130+ on them?

[Nantom670]

Mr. Clemens,

When you say you stacked the dado blades..you mean like put multiple blades on the table saw?

I just looked under south Florida craigslist and there is a very nice looking Craftsman 10" table saw that looks almost new for $180. I would not be surprised that they would not take 40 or $50 less for it. It also is set up on wheels. It will probably have a 10" blade, if I buy a new one, I always buy an 8", cheaper and you rarely ever need the larger blade. I have two used craftsmans that I have used for 15 yrs or more. I also have a used 12" bandsaw that I bought off my local craigslist for $100. Just buy what you need at first. Good used items will last a long time. You can find a lot of good example videos on utube for most cuts. And on a lot of bee videos also.
I bought a good used Freud dado set for $45.00 delivered to my house off ebay.

[psfred]

Cool blocks work fine. The original steel blocks work fine most of the time, but they screech.

Bearings work fine, but you cannot use them with narrow blades as they cannot be moved back enough to keep the bearing off the teeth if you do lots of scroll work. Probably not well enough to justify the price, thought.

Cool blocks are great for those narrow blades as the blade will simply cut a slot in the block, allowing it to support the blade right up to the edge. I put them on the saw I borrowed a few years ago, and will use them on any saw I buy (I'm shopping).

You may also want to true up the tires on your saw by holding either a very sharp lathe chisel or a block of wood with sandpaper on it so that the high spots are removed. Cuts way down on vibration and hence kerf width and improves the surface of the cut, to say nothing of reducing stress on the blade for out of round wheels.

Peter

[Joseph Clemens]

Well, now, with a Lenox Tri-Master Carbide toothed band saw blade, my cheap ol' Craftsman band saw performs like a champ. Cuts frame parts from cheap two-by lumber, accurately, smoothly, and quick, I believe that this blade is certainly worth the money. Not only do I get nice frame parts, made the way I want them, but I waste less wood by using a band saw and the carbide toothed blade helps the machine to work easier and hopefully this will increase its useful life.

So, now that I had my band saw upgraded, I started shopping for an air compressor (after all, I need to keep the band saw clean by blowing out the fine dust from the motor and nooks and crannies - don't I?). My brother (an aircraft mechanic by trade and an amateur auto mechanic, at home) has one of those monster, vertical tank compressor's with a 5 H.P. 240 volt motor. His cost more than $800, but my budget wasn't going to ever see that happen. I shopped and shopped and shopped some more, I finally settled on a $55, 1 gallon unit available at my local Walmart store, then I obtained fittings to connect it, together with a 5 gallon portable air tank (which I already had) - for increased storage capacity of compressed air and less frequent recharges from the compressor (the compressor runs less frequently). Then, using a pistol grip air nozzle it readily blew the dust from all the internal workings of my band saw and other power tools.

Uh oh, now I have a compressed air system, so I decided I needed to try assembling frame components with pneumatically driven staples. So, today I stopped by my local Harbor Freight store and picked up one of their $20, 18 gauge, narrow crown, pneumatic staple/brad nailers. I then drove across the street to the Lowe's store and purchased a box of 5000, Hitachi 1-1/4" x 1/4" staples. As soon as I arrived home I began using the stapler to finish assembling a batch of frames that had been languishing on my workbench.

[Daniel Y]

On the selection of "gadgets" available to make a given joint. There are many ways to skin a cat but in the end it is a skinned cat. First look at the various joints and how they are rated. For example a finger joint is rated better than a dado joint but is also more expensive in tools to make. Decide where the balance point is for you between quality and cost.

Here is a none complete comparison.

A dado joint can be made with nothing more than a router and the appropriate bit using a scrap piece of wood as a fence and you can even rig up a decent router table from scrap wood.

A finger joint can be done on a router but I don't recommend it. For it you should really use a table saw and dado blade. the cost is going to run you $100 at least just for the decent blade and if you don't own a table saw thing more like 6 to 7 hundred dollars.

A dado joint is not really rated much better than a but joint while a finger joint is one of the best joints for forming a box there is. I am talking a properly made finger joint that is. A dove tail woudl be about the only joint better. So basically if you want the best you are still going to pay for it. making your own may be cheaper, it is not free. Cheaper even may be questionable. Wooden ware can be purchased fairly cheaply.

[Ross]

On the selection of "gadgets" available to make a given joint. There are many ways to skin a cat but in the end it is a skinned cat. First look at the various joints and how they are rated. For example a finger joint is rated better than a dado joint but is also more expensive in tools to make. Decide where the balance point is for you between quality and cost.

Here is a none complete comparison.

A dado joint can be made with nothing more than a router and the appropriate bit using a scrap piece of wood as a fence and you can even rig up a decent router table from scrap wood.

A finger joint can be done on a router but I don't recommend it. For it you should really use a table saw and dado blade. the cost is going to run you $100 at least just for the decent blade and if you don't own a table saw thing more like 6 to 7 hundred dollars.

A dado joint is not really rated much better than a but joint while a finger joint is one of the best joints for forming a box there is. I am talking a properly made finger joint that is. A dove tail woudl be about the only joint better. So basically if you want the best you are still going to pay for it. making your own may be cheaper, it is not free. Cheaper even may be questionable. Wooden ware can be purchased fairly cheaply.

Actually, you don't even need a dado blade to make a dado joint. You can make two cuts, one on the face and one on the edge. Often it's quicker than setting up the dado blade if you're just running a few.

[Zonker]

A cheap Japanese styled saw from lowes ($21) that does both rip and cross cuts, a coping saw ($8), a chisel smaller than the size you want your box joint to be ($13), a tape measure ($10), and a tri-square ($10) and you can make all your bee boxes, top, bottoms, inner lids, etc. Not complicated just a little sweaty. No risk of losing a finger or your hearing. Won't permanently take up the middle of your garage floor. and ... the bragging rights are pretty much unlimited.

The real trick is gathering free scrap wood.

[psisk]

Some of just enjoy making our stuff. I know I do. I am looking next at making finger joint boxes. I now use a rabbit joint and it not only is a very positive seal but it rarely makes a box that doesnt fit up square, unlike some box joints I have bought that had to be squared up.

psisk

[Zonker]

Yeah, that's it exactly - enjoy making. half the fun of beekeeping

[throrope]

beekeeper120 - I'm gonna be the party poop.

I just cleaned up a leaky cyprus migratory top, made another from scrap plywood, covered both with aluminum flashing and made a bottom from scrap tongue & groove flooring. I have a cheap Skil table saw, 7" craftsman chop saw, the usual drills, tape measure, etc and used a rubber mallet to fold down the aluminum. By the time I got everything out, together and put away, it became an all afternoon affair. IMHO, if you only making standard langs hives in small quantities, unless you're time isn't needed elsewhere and you're tools are free, an online order is much more effective. Top bar hives are another story.